#13: Building Your Business God’s Way with Michelle Myers & Somer Phoebus of She Works His Way
Can you grow and scale your business in a way that honors God?
This podcast episode, featuring two amazing Christ-centered women, Michelle Myers and Somer Pheobus of She Works His Way, answers this question.
In this episode, you will learn about:
The importance of having the right people in the right seats in your business, and that it's not a bad thing to adjust your position based on your strengths.
How to have those hard conversations and how you should always come into a difficult conversation with humility.
Tips on how to grow your business and your team with joy and much less stress if you're a faith-based entrepreneur
Make sure to follow them on Instagram @sheworkshisway or visit their website here.
Are you ready to up level in your business? If you've already had massive success in your company and you're just ready for that next iteration, check out my free masterclass at www.scalewithjoy.com. In this short but very powerful training, I share exactly how to break through to that next level of exponential growth in your business and spoiler alert, it is not another program or formula. It is a custom approach for you based on your business and the very same strategies that I've used over and over with my own private consulting clients and national brands.
Listen to the Show:
Laura (00:00):
This is the Scale with Joy show episode 13: scaling God's way with Michelle Myers and Somer Phoebus.
(00:10):
Welcome to the Scale with Joy show, a podcast about scaling your company while living your most purposeful life because here's the thing, there are no rules to say you can't grow a massively profitable empire and have joy in the everyday. My name is Laura Meyer and let's get started.
(00:38):
Have you ever wondered, can you grow and scale a business in a way that is honoring to God and your faith? Today's interview features two amazing Christian women of a company called She Works His Way and they share the answers to this question and so much more that all joyful entrepreneurs need to hear when they're growing their business. So if you're a faith-based entrepreneur or you're just looking for tips on how to grow your business and your team with more joy and less stress, you are going to love this interview with Michelle and Somer coming up next.
(01:13):
I am here with my longtime friend Somer Phoebus and my new friend Michelle Myers and they're from She Works His Way and before we even got started with the interview we were bantering, we were laughing, we were talking about how we all just try to be like Somer with her hairstyle and her outfits and also started getting into culture. Right. And so Michelle was just saying that she loves it when she has the opportunity to be here with Somer because probably everyone goes to you Michelle is the founder, right? And they're like, oh you know, what do you think about this? Or what do you think about that? But you were just saying how important it is for you to feel like your team is included in these types of interviews. Can you just talk for a second about why?
Michelle (01:52):
Absolutely. And I'll say that Somer is here because she is one of the other people in the team that we have grown to the point to where she will be in this seat. She didn't want to be in this seat ever. But we have gotten her to the place where she is willing to be here. Not because I bullied her into it but because the Lord showed her that it was where he needed her. But there are even more behind the scenes leaders that exist at She Works His Way and we have very much of a team leadership approach. We have a lead team at She Works His Way that includes my husband, Eric, Teeny Pineda as well as the two of us. And that kind of team leadership to where I wouldn't say that we're not at a place where everybody goes to me for everything. We all have ownership areas and areas that we own and we know who owns what and everybody is the owner of something within the ministry so that it's way better. Cause, Somer can attest to this. Most of the things in the ministry you don't want me to own, because I would not do a good job with them.
Laura (02:55):
So I'm laughing about this because, I'm going to stop you for a second. I'm laughing about because I love, first of all, the humor that you're bringing to all of us. A lot of owners are sort of like probably crying in the corner, sucking their thumb when they realize that like they are not going to be good at everything in their company. It's going to outgrow them before we even get into that. So She Works His Way Is an online community for women who are looking to work, whether they're in a formal workplace or they have their own business in the way that reflects what the Bible says and that's it. It's for women who want to work God's way. And so you grew to a certain point, Michelle. And then how did, how did Somer come into the picture? Because a lot of people were like, how do I hire my first employer? How do I learn to trust somebody new?
Michelle (03:41):
Oh, this is a great story. And it's one that we, I personally really enjoy telling. So Somer was always in the picture because she works his way was not a brand, it was not a business idea. It was a need and a conversation and a community that I needed. And so I roped in three other friends that needed it too. And we started meeting on Google hangout at five o'clock in the morning, once a week. And eventually they convinced me that, hey listen, this is a conversation that more women need to have. And so I was just the one that started the Instagram account and started having these conversations on a regular basis.
(04:25):
But from the very beginning, I was constantly coming to Somer and asking her for her feedback, for her advice, getting her wisdom because she was somebody that I really respect that is alike me and like we're very alike and similar in the things that matter, but in most other things we're very different. And so I realized that I was not going to be the sole person that needed to reach. I didn't want to just reach a room full of me. Yeah, that would be exhausting. And so how do we have this conversation in a way that reaches the most women possible? Because this mission is really important. And so Somer was very involved in her own business and her own things and she did not want another job even though I tried to convince her otherwise.
(05:19):
Then as I started bringing people on to help with certain things, Somer was very quick to be like, see, I couldn't do that. I don't do that. That's not me. I don't do that. And then we had one day where I just, we just had something really bad go down and it's just one of those days in business that you dread, but they're inevitable to where you're just going to have to deal with the messy of the broken world that we live in. And I came to summer because I had to let an employee go and it was one of those things where it's, this is not a, let's have a conversation to see if there can be restoration here. And then the reaction was, okay, we've made decisions that we need to part ways. This is not going to be able to move forward.
Michelle (06:10):
And so I called Somer because I was devastated.
Laura (06:12):
I literally threw up after I fired my first employee, like literally puked.
Michelle (06:17):
I mean I was not sleeping; I was not eating and like I knew I had done the right thing. I just remember about a year later I went to a conference with Dave Ramsey and I just remember him telling us, if you enjoy firing somebody, then you're just a cruel person.
Laura (06:38):
And there's no good way to do it. Like you're trying to spin it and make it nice. I'm doing it in your favor.
Michelle (06:44):
It just, it was a messy situation that required a consequence. But even though it was the right thing, it still wasn't an easy thing and I was struggling. So at that point, that was what kind of was the catalyst for summer. Somer was at a conference with her husband, Kent. She had left the conference to talk to me and then she went back in, she told Kent what was going on and he just kind of gave her this look. We were talking about how discerning he is. She was like, I know I'll call her back. So she left again and came back and called me and was like, I don't know if I can do what you need. But what I do know is that I won't do that to you.
Laura (07:25):
That's cool. So I want to transition to Somer if that's okay. So just because this is a whole, this is a whole show about scaling. So you were scaled probably to what point when Somer when you came on, like how many members do you guys have at this point? Do you remember?
Somer (07:41):
Oh my goodness. How did we become a membership community yet? I don't know.
Michelle (07:47):
We were at maybe the 400-member point.
Laura (07:51):
And where are you today?
Michelle (07:54):
About 1,100.
Laura (07:55):
Okay, cool. So Somer, you come on like a third of the growth that you currently have. What are some of your “ahas” when you started coming into the organization and thinking about like we want to have fun cause you ladies obviously love to laugh, which I love. We want to have fun but we also want to grow this thing. You know, what were some of your thoughts.
Somer (08:16):
I think for me understanding the mission and the purpose in what we were doing, that's very hard to find someone and teach them mission or purpose. So I believe that that's probably the part that set us apart from other companies with just business partners that you know an investing partner and a brain partner and whatever trying to grow. I think we were both really, really passionate about what the company was about or what the growth was in favor of and so coming in at the beginning, it was me protecting my best friend but also loving so much the calling that God had placed on her life and then realizing, oh my goodness, I think this is what I'm supposed to be a part of.
(09:02):
Now, the capacity in which I came in was very business focused, the business side of things. That's where I was comfortable. That's where I enjoyed. Also thought this is going to be so perfect if you've ever heard Michelle speak or teach the Bible, you know that that girl was meant to be right there like that is that is her place. And I thought I will alleviate some of these other responsibilities so she can focus on those places that she loves. And I knew if people heard her teach business and based on the principles of scripture that they would just like run to us. Right. But in my mind, that's what I thought. So coming in, that's what I felt like that would be, you know what I would do?
Laura (09:45):
Give the girl a mic and the people will come. That's what you were thinking.
Somer (09:48):
Fast forward to now and I've just watched God take us both out of our comfort places and move us into so many other areas. And I've also watched him narrow our focus and who we're trying to reach and be unapologetically who we are. So coming in with growth strategies that worked for the other brick and mortar businesses I had built and even the online business I was involved in did not work in this particular situation. I believe it was because the mission and the focus was all we knew. Everything else was totally up to board. We had no idea. And also understanding the world in which we live in. Not everybody wants to do the work that they're called to do God's way because honestly there's so much more peace and so much more joy, but it's hard. It's really hard. It's so much easier to do it the world's way and to focus on strategic growth and money and looking at people as what they can do for you rather than what you can do for them and things like that.
(10:53):
We have to like shift a mindset and make women understand we're here for the purpose of glorifying God, but that doesn't mean, Michelle always says we have to like check our brain at the doors or check our guests of the doors. You were wired uniquely as women who love business. So how do we do that in a way that honors God, which no business strategy or marketing strategy tended to that way. So we had to like walk through this in just really obedience. I always say like as believers we get like this get out of jail free card because like the results are up to him, right? So we're like trying to carry this load and measure everything. And honestly the measurement is our obedience and our faithful service. So like coming in in the beginning, God knew I needed to see Michelle at a place where I knew that I could at least be a part of the team in a way that was supportive and protective. And I knew to protect the mission and to focus on the purpose. And then I knew that I had business gifts and abilities, but then what he grew us into was totally different than what I ever expected. So I went in with one set of expectations and currently now not even close to the same thing.
Michelle (12:15):
So I learned this about Somer because Somer was very quick to understand what she felt comfortable in. But I could always get her to go to the uncomfortable place. If I simply said, I need your help, I need your help in this. I need you to help me do this. I need you to, if I gave you a couple of things, could you, could you write a few things for me? And because she was always like, I'm not a writer. I don't do content. I'm not any of these things. And I'm like, I'm talking to you too much. I know what's in here. And I know that if it's in here, it can be here. And so for her to do things to help me and then almost, it was a little manipulation.
Somer (13:05):
I was waiting for which word was going to come out of your mouth right there.
Michelle (13:08):
I was trying to think of a way to say it nicer.
Laura (13:14):
I would say the last thing the listener was expected, be like I listened to those ladies from, she works his way and they taught me about how to manipulate my employees. You talked about earlier with submission, right? So you were saying that there's a certain amount of submission that happens and typically you think of submission to the employee, to the employer, but you were talking about submission as in servant leadership. Like how has that shown up every day?
Michelle (13:40):
So the reality of it is Somer and I are very different and we have learned through the years of working together that if both of us are excited it does so much better. And so if I come to Somer with something and she hesitates, then I'm immediately like, okay, I need to work harder to present my case or this isn't something that we should pursue. Because I think that is the beauty of having a team that beyond being employer and employees, we are all serving the Lord in our gift sets. And so to understand Somer's walk with the Lord is to understand that I need to yield to her, walk with him. And to what he's doing in her life. And in doing so, there's so much power in that because I'm not limited to just my walk with the Lord or my own discernment, I get to take advantage of the other leaders that are on the team and what God is doing in them and in their hearts.
Somer (14:42):
Yeah. Yeah. I think submission for me was hard at first because I believed I knew what I was good at and what I could bring to the table. And so when anyone told me anything outside of that, it worried me and made me feel uncomfortable. And so I had to really step back and listen to the people that God had put in my life that he had put here to reveal things to me that I didn't know about myself. And so submission for me was like, it wasn't like just a healthy respect. It was like the step I needed to take to move forward, not only to benefit the team, but to challenge me and in my personal walk and my place where I needed to go and move and do. And so that to me was like submission is one of the greatest gifts.
(15:35):
For some reason we've turned that word into like a weak word and I, I hate that about it. Submission is a gift and it is a strength and it makes everyone better when you are able to do it. And so instead of looking at it as this word that that causes us to have to step back and like, the submission relationships that I have in my life when I am submissive, it always, especially when it's to a person who loves the Lord and knows my heart, it always protects me and it grows me and it strengthens me and it moves me forward. So we got to understand that word in a better way than what culturally it's kind of been deemed as.
Michelle (16:20):
Well, I think that's the problem is we mix culture's definition and what we have to understand is that our issue is not with submission because we submit to the world all the time. Even having a problem with submission is a worldly submission, submitting to the world's way of doing things because submission is God's plan of him saying he's the ultimate authority and then we respond in obedience to him. And so our problem with submission is submission to the world's way.
Laura (16:48):
So interesting. So many people get stuck at these inflection points, right? And I think that there's a lot of mindset inflection points where they get stuck that's completely correlated to their ability to earn revenue and not that revenue is, you know, is the end game for everybody, right? For you, it's your service and, and you know, extension of the community. I always say, the more revenue you make, the more people you can help, right?
(17:14):
Are you ready to up level in your business? If you've already had massive success in your company and you're just ready for that next iteration, check out my free masterclass at scalewithjoy.com or head to the link in the show notes. In this short but very powerful training, I share exactly how to break through to that next level of exponential growth in your business and spoiler alert, it is not another program or formula. It is a custom approach for you based on your business and the very same strategies that I've used over and over with my own private consulting clients and national brands. That's scalewithjoy.com also available in the show notes. Now back to the show.
(17:59):
Can you identify certain inflection points that either like when Somer came on or different states where you guys created a shift that propelled you forward? Is there anything that comes to mind?
Michelle (18:10):
I have one so I can go first at what if you're, unless you want to.
Somer (18:15):
No, go ahead. Go ahead.
Laura (18:16):
I love the submission ladies.
Michelle (18:18):
So the first one that I can think about is just really when we figured out our audience and who we're talking to and in that who we're not talking to because I think for a while, we were still trying to figure it out, which please don't rush this process. The way that you figure it out is by doing the work. And so if you allow yourself to have that perfection paralysis of, I'm not going to do anything until I know the reason why we know is because we tried and we kept trying and we tried again.
(18:51):
And so once we kind of narrowed down who we're talking to and who we're not talking to, that was such a game changer for us. Not in a prideful way of, I don't care what this person doesn't think, but it just allows you to speak with so much more certainty when you're talking to someone, when you know who you're talking to and so figure it out. And not just in a way of figuring out who you're talking to but figure out who you're not talking to.
Laura (19:24):
So who are you not talking to? I'd love to know.
Michelle (19:27):
We're not talking to the half-committed person.
Laura (19:31):
The cafeteria Christian.
Michelle (19:36):
If you are a compartmentalize Christian, we're going to offend you real fast. Or if your business is more of a hobby for you, that's fine, but you're not going to resonate with the purpose and the deep place that we go to of what the opportunity is in your work. Right? And so we actually, it was funny, we did a survey and the majority of the women that are inside our community consider themselves to work full time and most of them work outside of the home. So I'm the minority in our community of working full time at home. Yeah. And so, but I think understanding that as if we were trying to cater or not offend the person that's not all in it would really change and diminish our message. I think that was a big one for me.
Somer (20:34):
Yeah. I think for me there's a momentum right now in the place where we are, that is so exciting. And I wake up pretty much every day, super pumped about where She Works His Way is, you can kind of build moment and I think the biggest shift that we've seen over the last, I guess 2019 really is that, you hear it all the time, the right people in the right seats. And we talk about how important that is. It is vital. And so I've watched that happen. I think we've all sat in other seats and so we've kind of found this place.
(21:08):
I mentioned to you before we actually started recording here that Michelle and I have like we're the ones in the DMS in Instagram and social media and so many people think after a certain place of growth that's when you hire it out, you hand it off to someone else. And that for us has been such a game changer because we're having conversations. That's where the modern conversation is now. Like we can't always go sit at a coffee shop with someone, although we would love to, a lot of these conversations are happening with women who are like at a lunch break at work or the kids are down for nap and we're having in DM and on Instagram, hopefully you guys know what I'm saying.
(21:50):
So that's, that's been a game changer. And we weren't in this seat previously. So this current place, I think it's making a difference, but as well as the rest of the team. She talked earlier about having ownership areas. Michelle has always talked about, you know, not ranking our team, like number one, number two, number three, number four. She said everyone on the team is number one in a certain area. And I think seeing that and understanding that has made a difference. So you mentioned it previously. I don't think we always know what seats were supposed to be. I certainly didn't when I came here, I was sitting in completely the wrong seat. So as we've moved around and shifted, it's made a huge, huge difference. And I feel like the current momentum is coming from that. Would you think that Michelle?
Michelle (22:41):
Yes. And then I think I would also add a catalyst to that of when we all have an opportunity to kind of get away. I think when you're so busy in the details of the work and you don't take the time to work on, if I take a week of reflection, they're all equally excited and terrified because they know that I'm going to come back and I'm going to have these things. And, but what's so fun is that usually it's this, okay, I don't know exactly what this is going to look like, but I feel like we have a sticking point here, helped me develop this into something that we can change to make it better. And so that team approach moving forward, because I think one person does need to carry the vision does not mean that one person is the one with all the ideas. It just means that somebody has to be in that situation and they have lovingly and trusted me with that responsibility for the vision and the future of where we're going. But the beauty of it is I don't feel pressure in that position because I know who everybody on our team is following and they're not following me.
Laura (23:50):
So what's so interesting, I'm watching this, you guys have a real beauty in being able to remove a lot of the emotion around from situations that most people would be triggered by. Many people would be triggered by, right? Like, so I've had the wrong seat conversation cause I've gone through EOS facilitation training, like I've done all that so I'm familiar, I've seen the wrong seat conversation go very badly. Sometimes it's because of the way it's presented and sometimes people don't want to really face the fact that they might be in the wrong seat. What for you Somer made that like it's okay. Like it's okay, I'm in the wrong seat. It doesn't mean I'm bad, broken or wrong, it just means I'm in the wrong seat.
Somer (24:25):
Absolutely. Honestly, I think that it was knowing that what Michelle and the team wanted for me was genuinely the best thing. And even in explaining to me the places where they wanted me to step out and move forward, whether they were actually items that looked like promotions or things that look like they're being taken away from me, it never felt like either of those. It felt like this is the natural next step in making you the best you can be for this mission right now. And so I don't know that there is a way to word it or a script you can use. I think if you're a leader and you genuinely want what's best for the people on your team, even over the business, if you want what's best for the people, they can feel that. They can sense that. They absolutely know that. And when you hired them in, they probably came in and worked for you because of that. So when you truly want what's best for the team, you can have these conversations that are so much more uncomfortable because there's no, not a thought in my head that, Oh, like she, she's moving me to get ahead here to do. It's genuinely what she wanted and needed and what was best for me and it just, it felt that way.
Laura (25:57):
Michelle, anything to add to that? From a leadership standpoint?
Michelle (26:00):
I think hard conversations are harder if you're a hard person.
Laura (26:07):
Ooh, that's quotable.
Michelle (26:12):
If you come into hard conversations with humility, which is like the X factor of what we require in a team, like beyond a skillset, beyond anything. The thing that I love the most about our team is the humble hearts that serve here. And so when everybody is approaching it from, it's not about my ego, it's about what is needed for the mission because the mission matters most then hard conversations happen, but they don't feel hard. Right.
Laura (26:47):
So good. I love that you're saying this because I think so many leaders hold themselves back from growing their companies because those conversations are so uncomfortable. They'll just say, well, that's okay. We just won't grow. That's okay. We just won't get bigger because that's really, I'm not that kind of leader. Whereas that's probably a story, right?
Michelle (27:08):
I think at some point you realize how uncomfortable disobedience is. Like no matter how uncomfortable this is, I know how much more uncomfortable disobediences. Yeah, and I answered to a higher authority than my feelings and my emotions.
Laura (27:31):
Yeah. That's amazing. That's great advice for any leader, faith-based or not, you know, it is something that when it's bigger than you, it's a lot easier to take yourself out of it. Right. So good. This conversation has been awesome. I know it's been really inspiring. I love that you came on together because I think again, I think this is where a lot of people experienced a lot of pain. Like I just as you had said, your own moments of growing people in wrong seats. I also wanted to say, I love that you answered your own DMS because this is a great, this is a great transition into if you want to reach out to them or Michelle or Somer about anything they said just DM them, She Works His Way. If that's something that you want to explore or you just want to comment on Somer's hair, you just go right to She Works His Way and send a DM about it or if you want to see more hairstyles, just stay tuned, change.
Michelle (28:31):
It'll change and it'll be somehow more awesome.
Laura (28:34):
It's going to be a new course with She Works His Way Michelle and I are going to develop a based on our own deficiencies in this area. And I love that because I have to say I contacted somebody I knew; I knew her on a personal level before her business got huge. I messaged her and I was like, Hey, I just want to let you know that I'm so happy for you. So and so, um, you know, doing a great job and the message I got back, you know, it was great to see you, you know, it's great to see you again. It's been a long time, something like that. And I got a very, very generic message back and I was a little sad, like I was a little bit like, can you just please forward it to her? I love that you, you know, just let her know that it was me and that I said hi when we had dinner, you know, years ago. It was so great to see how far, you know, what she's done.
(29:24):
I love that you answered, the messages. I love that you've decided that that's your highest value part, right. And all of this and the communications and everything, and so again, they can message you then go to, She Works His Way Instagram, and whether you are thinking of starting your business, you're in an organization of somebody else who invited you here, or if you are faith based and growing your business, I would definitely encourage you to check out the community and get more great advice from Michelle and Somer. Thank you so much ladies for joining us.
Michelle and Somer (29:53):
Thanks for having us.
Laura (29:57):
Make sure to visit our website, www.joybrandcreative.com/podcast where you can subscribe to the show in iTunes, Stitcher, or RSS so that you'll never miss an episode. While you're at it, if you find a value in this show, we'd appreciate a rating on iTunes or if you just simply tell a friend about it, that would help us out a lot too. Thanks so much for listening.
The Scale with Joy podcast dives into the mindset and strategies of scaling your company to the million dollar mark and beyond. Each week, we follow the journeys of innovators, disruptors, experts and leaders - sharing behind the scenes stories of their most challenging moments and greatest lessons learned-all while building their multi-million dollar empires.