#25: Mastering Critical Decision Making with Brian Moran, Founder & CEO of Small Business Edge
Have you ever been haunted by “what ifs”?
What if we lose our largest client?
What if our business partner falls ill?
What if sales drop and I'll need to file for bankruptcy?
In this interview, Brian Moran, Founder and CEO of Small Business Edge, talks about how:
Actually thinking about all these “what ifs” early while you're growing your business can help you avoid making bad decisions.
He learned a very important business lesson the hard way
His company, Small Business Edge, is an interactive community platform that allows business owners to manage and grow their companies.
So, if you want to learn a technique to gain more confidence so you can overcome any business challenge you may face, you should listen to my interview with Brian!
Learn more about Brian here: https://smallbusinessedge.com or follow him on Instagram @brianmoran42.
Are you a visionary entrepreneur who wants to create change with your company in the world? If so, I want to let you know about a free masterclass that I just wrapped up. In this short but powerful training, I teach you exactly how to create a brand that inspires the hearts and minds of your audience and invites them into massive action. These are the very same frameworks that I've used to help my own private consulting clients and national companies you know and love, spread their mission, launch expansion, and accelerate influence. To join in, visit https://joybrandcreative.com/movement.
Listen to the Show:
Laura (00:00):
This is the Scale with Joy show, episode 25: mastering critical decision making with Brian Moran.
(00:10):
Welcome to the Scale with Joy show, a podcast about scaling your company while living your most purposeful life, because here's the thing: there are no rules to say you can't grow a massively profitable empire and have joy in the everyday. My name is Laura Meyer and let's get started.
(00:35):
When we're growing a business. It can feel pretty scary. We can be haunted by thoughts like what if we lose our largest client or what if our business partner falls ill? Or what if sales drop and I'll need to file for bankruptcy? So many people in the last few months have really struggled with these questions. And in this interview, Brian Moran, founder and CEO of Small Business Edge talks about how thinking about all these things is actually a benefit to growing your business and how it can really help you avoid making bad decisions. He shares a very specific technique on how to gain more confidence so that you can overcome any business challenge that could come your way. And in this interview, Brian is transparent. He is funny. I've known him for many years and I can't wait to share his wisdom with you. Up next, Brian Moran.
(01:27):
Hey everybody. I am with Brian Moran. He's the CEO of the Small Business Edge, and he has had extensive experience with business. He is a contributor to major publications. He's helped thousands and thousands of small business owners. And I'm really lucky to call him a personal friend through my husband. He said, you've got to meet Brian, he worked with Brian in a previous role, and we hit it off. So welcome, Brian. Thank you so much for being here,
Brian (01:53):
Laura, I'm thrilled to be here and thanks for having me.
Laura (01:55):
Yeah. So if you wouldn't mind, just like I know it's tough to sum up your extensive career in such a small amount of time we have here. Would you mind just kind of guiding the viewers through your journey to the state?
Brian (02:07):
I started out in publishing almost 30 years ago. I started out at Success Magazine and it's funny. I went to journalism school in hopes of being a sportswriter and I eventually got into magazines and found out how much they make on the editorial side. So I switched over to sales, climbed my way up the ladder on the sales and business side. So, spend time at Success, Entrepreneur Magazine, Inc Magazine, Wall Street Journal. Then I also had my own publishing company for a number of years and we published magazines for business. So I really got a feel for what it was like for people to pursue their dreams. And I learned so much from so many smart people and in 2012, I left the Wall Street journal and I started my own company and we basically do two things. We help people run better businesses and we help marketers better target the small to midsize business market.
Laura (03:07):
So you had your publishing company and then we talked about if this was okay to talk about before the interview and you said, yeah, absolutely. It's so awesome when people are willing to share you had your publishing company and then the recession came.
Brian (03:20):
Oh yeah. The big tsunami.
Laura (03:23):
Yes. The tsunami. So for those of you who are listening, that was, and might not remember, not to age Brian and I or anything that was 2000. When did you really start seeing, I would say eight, really? When you started seeing the signs that maybe publishing was going to take a hit.
Brian (03:39):
Interestingly enough, I started my publishing company in 2002 and we had the SBAs magazine that we published for them. And it was fantastic. It was like printing money between that and then launching my own magazines and doing contract publishing. And I almost sold my company twice in 2005 and 2006. And I kick myself now for not having done that. But, you know, when a recession is coming and you're in the publishing business, because about 6 to 12 months before the actual recession hits, advertising starts to drop off.
Laura (04:15):
When the consumer confidence index starts dropping.
Brian (04:18):
Well, advertising in magazines, you know, back in the day. Yeah. And, all of a sudden, and it drops fast and that's basically what happened. And I saw the signs and I just, you know, it's one of those things where you say, okay, I can either shut everything down except for the magazine. That's making me money, which is what my business coach advised me to do. Very, very smart guy. And of course I didn't listen to him. I said, you know what, I'm going to ride this out. And that's what I said, I'm going to ride it out. And I just got steamrolled and lost almost everything. I mean, you know, I had to declare bankruptcy in 2010, January of 2010, which was just devastating because it was in fact it was about two and a half years where all of a sudden I went from having a lot of money to having little or no money, very, very humbling experience. I shut everything down. And I went to work for the Wall Street Journal. I had a great job with them. And I said to my wife, I'm here for two years. And then I've gone back out on my own. And let me tell you something. It was for those who, who, who remember it was a very sluggish recovery.
Laura (05:32):
So, so many people are listening. There may be many people here who have filed for bankruptcy. And there may be people who have had other types of setbacks that really struggle with putting themselves back out there. In that moment, when you said to your wife, I'm here for two years, and then I'm going to put myself back out there. What were some of the thoughts inside your head? Like, what story did you need to rewrite in your head to help you feel like I'm going to go back out there?
Brian (05:58):
So, you know, it's interesting. I know who I am. I know, you know, what my DNA is made up of, but I had a friend of mine, an incredibly successful business owner, who I met while at the Wall Street Journal. I had breakfast with him one day in New York. And funny thing is it was on my wife's birthday. She was coming in; we're going to go out for dinner and a show. And he said to me, Brian, are you happy? I said, yeah, of course I'm happy, whatever. I work at the journal. And I get to all these trips and meet interesting people. And he said, you don't seem happy.
(06:35):
I said, what are you talking about? He said, you know what? Some people were meant to be in corporate America and corporate leaders. And he said, other people were meant to be entrepreneurs. He said you were born to be an entrepreneur. And he said, I worked in corporate America. And I told my wife, I needed to go out and start my own business. And I said, if it fails, I'll always, I can always go back to corporate America. And I said so what happened? And he said, well, it kind of started to fail, but I didn't tell my wife. And then it rebounded. And he did incredibly well. It's unbelievable how successful he became. I said, look, I'm in, I'm on board. I said, you need to convince my wife. And so my wife came in and he came back and he had a drink with us at night. And he said, listen, you know, Brian really should start his own company. And you know, his business failed, but he didn't fail. He got knocked down, but he didn't get knocked out.
(07:41):
Yeah. And so he said, get back up, dust yourself off. But here's what he said. That really was the kick. You know, the seller, he said, do it for your kids So you know what, so that they see what it's like to go through failure and hardship and difficult times. And there were difficult times. My kids were, you know, at the time, they were like 10 to 16 years old. I have four kids 10 to 16. All of a sudden I'm staring at college. I'm staring at, you know, private high school and stuff like that. And really like making some hard, difficult choices. And I said to my kids, when I tell you there was nobody who thought leaving corporate America to go start your own company in 2012 was a good idea. It was me.
(08:38):
And I remember my oldest son said to me, we're walking, we're taking a walk one day. And he said, you know what, dad, I believe it. And I think that, yeah, I think that you can, you will be successful no matter what, I didn't just start the company. Like I didn't just start, I didn't leave and started. I had planned this for months. So I literally left the journal end of June 2012. I had seven clients when I opened my door on July 4th, I had a whole business plan, GPS plan clients. In fact, I had three checks arrived that week.
Laura (09:14):
You had to do your best. I mean, probably still credits recovering, like you weren't at the luxury of taking the same risk that you were able to take previously. So it was in a way that's probably a good thing.
Brian (09:28):
Definitely. You know what? It was an education that first, that first real failure is so hard to take, tumbling. Like, you know, it's like getting hit in the back of a head with a two by four, it knocks you for a loop.
Laura (09:43):
Especially when it was going so well. Right? You had every reason to sign personal guarantees on loans and all that. Right. Because they're like, it's a good bet at this point.
Brian (09:53):
Right? Right. And then all sudden things go sideways. And man, you talk about feeling alone in the world. You don't answer your phone. You don't want to go out. You just want to stay in bed all day in a fetal position. You can't do that. You've got to get up. You got to have faith in yourself. Believe in yourself, believe in a higher purpose. Because reason alone would never allow me to step outside something that was going well to risk it for something that was going to be better.
Laura (10:29):
And that you really ultimately felt like it was your purpose.
Brian (10:34):
Yeah. So, you know, in, in, so there's a book that I read when I was 17 years old, it's called Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. And it talks about what is the meaning of your life. And if you apply that to everything that we go through on a daily basis, everything that we do as a means to a single end, and that is the meaning of my life, my career, my entrepreneurial endeavors, there are means to an end, that's not the end, the end is not to build a company and sell it off one day. Okay. Then what, where does that take you? What drives you? What is the meaning of your life? And for everybody that's different. But you have to ask yourself that question.
Laura (11:25):
I read a book once called Finishing Big and it talked about the, you probably are familiar with it. Where it talks about the severe depression that many people go into when they build a company.
Brian (11:38):
Yeah. Because they think that was it. Yeah.
Laura (11:40):
That was it. Right. And it was going to make them happy and it, and it didn't cause that can't make you happy.
Brian (11:46):
No, money alone is not going to make you happy. I know so many people who are incredibly wealthy and they say, you know what, money solves one problem. But it brings with it a host of others. Right. And it's hard. It's hard for me to say that to people who don't have money, who live paycheck to paycheck. And that's where you have to find gratitude and other things. So when you're grateful for every single day, whether you're ascending the mountain or descending into the Valley, so you know what, there's a rough patch coming ahead. But I'm thinking all for having my mental and physical faculties in place to get past it and come out on the, the other side and I'll be better for it. Then you say, okay, let's do this.
Laura (12:40):
You're doing this. You got your first few checks that first week.
Brian (12:44):
Yes. And amazingly, you know, everything was going well. And then my first big corporate client, imagine this. So we take this client on and we're building, I'm a pretty good, you know, five figure, monthly clip for work that we're doing. And they were supposed to pay us a deposit and then monthly check, monthly check, monthly check. And now they're four months into monthly checks, but they haven't paid yet. And it's an international bank and it was around Christmas time. And I had to say to my wife, okay, I got some tough news here. My largest client has not paid me yet. And there are four months into it about to go five. And yeah, she shook her head. She said, this is what I was afraid of. Like, we're back to where we started. And so on December 30th, 2012, I remember taking a walk with my dogs and I prayed that day. And I said, God, I am going to figure this out.
(13:46):
And by the way, the person who told me to go into business for myself, who said it was a good idea. He said, what are you worried about? And I said, you know, hitting those financial speed, bumps, cashflow, whatnot, and not having the resources to get by. And he said to me, if you hit those speed bumps, I will give you a line of credit, at zero percent interest. And he mentioned a figure and it was a lot of money. And I said, okay, that sounds great. I'll do it. I called him on December 28th that year. And I said, I hit a speed bump, he said what happened. I said, my largest client hasn't paid me for the work that we've done in the past four months, plus a deposit. It's about a small six figure check, but they owe me. And he said, I would love to help you, but I'm not in a position to do it right now. And I was stunned. And I said, what are you talking about? Like you said, you would help me. He said, I know what I said, but I just can't do it right now. And this is a guy when I tell you he has enough money that he could have written that check a hundred times over. And I yelled at him when I said, you know, this is not what you said that under that. And I hung up the phone and that's when I took the walk. And I said, I'm going to call the CEO of this bank on Monday in the new year. And I'm going to get that money come hell or high water. So on Monday, and I said, 2013 is going to be my best year ever. I'm making this promise to myself and that's hard to do when you're scared of this situation.
Laura (15:35):
I love that thought though. I want to pause for a second and acknowledge how you decided to choose a different thought.
Brian (15:45):
Because it's so easy. You know, new year's coming new, year's resolutions. I'm going to lose weight. I'm going to, I'm going to get my finances in order. It's going to be my best year ever. And you know, those usually last about a week, maybe. I said, it's going to be my best year ever. And I'm committing myself to that one thought. And so that first day of the new year came, first day of business and I called the bank and I said I need to speak with the CEO of the company. And I've got this financial matter. Will they put me in touch with the accounts payable? And a woman at accounts payable was more mortified about the situation. And I said, you know, I was told not to contact you that, that I only had to speak with the group, the marketing group. And she said, well, they were wrong. And we're going to have a conversation with them. And I apologize. She sent me the check, for not only the four months they owed me and the deposit, she paid me two months in advance and she overnighted the check and I got it the next day.
Laura (16:51):
Where are you looking at it like, holding it up to the light?
Brian (16:56):
Yes. And you know what, it's the power of positive thinking. I was not going to take no for an answer. I said, this, I've been down this road before, and this is not how the story ends. This is where you say enough. And I got it. And I laughed. And I said, okay, we're off to a good start. And you know what? There were a lot of great moments that year. And, and it was just that power of positive thinking, saying, you know what, I'm going to come up to this obstacle. And if I run towards it, the mountain becomes a molehill, if I run away, molehill becomes a mountain. That year, and for a couple of years after, I never stopped running at the molehills, I said, cause that's all they are. And it really does work.
Laura (17:49):
It does. It does. I love that. I love that you're choosing a different thought and not becoming a victim to your circumstances. And I think that's really easy to do, whether it's, you know, just something that compared to what you went through is seemingly small. You know, maybe I had a launch that didn't go as well as I needed it to or something pretty major, you know, that impacted you and your family of four right around Christmas time. It was probably pretty high pressure. And choosing that new thought.
(18:18):
Hey there! Are you a visionary entrepreneur who wants to create change with your company in the world? If so, I want to let you know about a free masterclass that I just wrapped up in this short, but powerful training. I teach you exactly how to create a brand that inspires the hearts and minds of your audience and invites them into massive action. These are the very same frameworks that I've used to help my own private consulting clients and national companies you know and love spread their mission, launch expansion and accelerate influence. To join in visit joybrandcreative.com/movement. That's joybrandcreative.com/movement. Also available in the show notes. Now back to the show.
(19:07):
There was another thing you and I have talked about in the past is this idea of growing your business without worrying about the get, what you're going to get back, growing it without giving, being generous, showing up without being super obsessed with how it's going to come back to you.
Brian (19:25):
And that partly is faith, faith in mankind and faith in the people you do business with and faith in the universe, right? That all things equal out. There's a phenomenal book called The Greatest Salesman in the world. Don't let the title fool you. It was written probably almost 70 years ago by a man named OG Mandino. And he talks about the tombstone test and it's for salespeople, but it's what do you want written on your tombstone? And if you say, oh, I won the most contests or I sold the most widgets. Then you're all wrong for sales. But if you say I helped other people achieve their goals and their objectives. And in turn, I was able to achieve my own goals and objectives. Then you're perfect for selling and really entrepreneurship.
(20:18):
So, I always ask my clients, tell me about what your goals are and what your objectives are and how I can use my resources to help you achieve your goals. And I don't think a lot of people do that. I think a lot of people build something and they go out and they try and sell it. You know, whether it's a product or a service and they say, okay, I found this great service. Now let me go find somebody who, you know, would want to buy it, rather than saying, how can I help you today? And knowing that you're sincere and you're authentic and genuine about it. And people say, wow, that's refreshing. How can I help you too, like, what can I do? You can be a sponsor; you can be a client. And so that thought of kind of leading with your hand out to say, how can I help you without understanding necessarily what you're going to get in return for it. There's always something that comes back. I.
Laura (21:23):
It's so interesting for people who haven't discovered that yet in their path of entrepreneurship, usually they're at a they're plateauing revenue wise. And the trick is like, the paradox is right to continue giving without worrying about what you're getting by creating value in the world, trusting that that value is going to show up what you give out, that value can show up in your bank account. And it may not be in the way you were expecting.
Brian (21:52):
Right, now that said, don't give away everything right? There are people, cause there are givers and there are takers in this world and you have to identify people who are simply takers, who see your generosity and want to maximize it. Without giving anything in return, those are people who are pretty easy to spot. And you know, it's just simple that you just stopped doing business with them. You stop talking to them. And so it's okay to say no to those people because they don't understand the beauty of closing loop on everything. You know, that there's a real rewards in giving. They're just simply taking all the time.
Laura (22:36):
This is a good question. I'm curious about how you handle cause I'm naturally a giver and that has certainly, and I've over given to people who are just a hundred percent takers and sometimes takers are attracted to givers because they will, you know, they're like great. You know, like this works out perfectly for me. So where's that line where you're like constantly generous with people. Like you've been super generous with me and my own career transitions. Where are you generous with people? And then where are you kind of like, okay, these are my boundaries and we're done here.
Brian (23:06):
Right? Right. You know, I've been always a pretty like a natural reader of people. And just in a first five minutes, you can tell what somebody is, whether they're a giver or taker, I understood your situation. And all I did was give you my time and advice and introduce you to some people because I knew that that's all you needed and that's all you are going to ask of me. And that's fine. And, and I love John. So it was, that was easy to do. You know, most people I'll get like people will call me or people email me all the time. I'll answer those emails. I'll answer them. And I'll say, you know, how can I help? You know, hey Brian, I just read a blog post. You wrote really in dire straits and whatever. And I'll answer it. And you know, to me, that's, it's going to sound funny, but that's God reaching out to me. And that's him saying help this person in need. I'm not telling you to give up everything you're doing and help that person because all they need to see is that somebody cares, somebody willing to listen. Somebody's willing to offer advice. And really how much time did that take away from what I'm doing? 10 minutes, maybe 30, if it involved a phone call. And then I go back to what I'm doing. So that's who I am. And that's who you are, as people. We help, if somebody's falling down, we're going to help them up.
Laura (24:36):
I think that that is directly proportional to the idea that we have both scale businesses, multiple six and seven figure business. And we both, you know, struggled in certain times, we both flourished in certain times. And I think that does give you that sense of like compassion. You know, when somebody is really struggling, but you also know who's going to dig out of it because of the way that they're thinking about it.
Brian (24:58):
I'm going to teach you how to fish. I'm not going to just give you enough fish to last for two weeks and say, okay, good luck. If somebody is really struggling, I will sit there with them and identify the problem. I'll give them two or three options that I think are the best solutions. Then I'll say good luck. I'm not saying good riddance. I'm saying that you're going to need to go through this on your own. And here's the deal, it's not going to kill you. It's hard. It's painful. And let me get back to the story about my friend, by the way, which I didn't close the loop on that. When he said I don't have the money to give to you right now. Like this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. He was teaching me a lesson. He had the money; he had the money.
(25:47):
He could've said Brian here's X. You know, here's a couple of hundred thousand dollars. Pay me back when you get paid by your client. But that would have taken the emphasis off of me trying to get that money. I would not have made that call Monday morning because my, the fire on my rear end that was burning out of control is now temporarily out. And so I don't have to address the pain right now. So he said to me, I'm not in a position to give you that money. And when I hung up the phone, I said, I got to figure this out myself. And guess what? I did. A couple of weeks later, I called him back and I said, I owe you an apology. No, I said, I now see what you were doing when we had that conversation. And I understand that if you had given me that money, I would not have made that phone call. It wasn't a money situation. It was a communication problem, but he didn't understand that they owed me this money for whatever reason and they fixed it. Yeah. And sometimes you have to take a couple of steps back.
Laura (26:58):
Such a good story. And that must have been kind of hard for your friend too, cause I'm sure he would have just preferred to write you the check he believed in you. He was the one that encouraged you to do this. And he made a commitment, but he probably knew you weren't really stuck. Right? Like you probably knew this is a matter. And I've had to do the same thing for big corporate clients. It's like, you're not getting paid. You're not getting paid. You like email the CEO. And you're just like, I got to get paid. You know, I've got to get paid and it's, and it's funny how that can happen. Even in large companies, it's not comfortable. Especially if you like the person, you have a good relationship with them, or even if you don't, but it's a conversation that needs to happen
Brian (27:33):
And think about how much you learned and grew from that.
Laura (27:41):
I’m in a situation like that right now, where I'm like, all right, it's not a ton of money, but like, it's been a while now.
Brian (27:45):
Right. They're hard conversations to have, but now that you've had them, you understand how it works and how you can do it easily without worrying too much about it.
Laura (27:57):
Right. Not being liked, like the CEO's a woman that I'm really friendly with. And I'm like afraid of not being liked and like all that stuff. But I'm like kind of, I really worry more about the five-figure check, then not being liked. So you kind of have to like to get over that. Right.
Brian (28:12):
And you have to believe in yourself, play this game. This is what your listeners, a game that they should play on a regular basis. It's called the, what if game? What if this happens? How will we respond? What if our clients start paying us late? What will we do? What if we lose our largest client? What if an emergency expense appears, you know, like we have to invest in new equipment or, or one of our business partners falls ill or disabled? Look at every aspect of your business and play the, what if game, because eventually one of those things will happen. And instead of trying to determine how are we going to respond? And ultimately what happens is you make a bad decision based on little or no information. And you look at it and say, why did I do that? But then you've already written out the answer. It's like break, open the glass, pull out the sheet of paper, read it and execute.
Laura (29:19):
Yeah. And you've written the answer when you weren't under the stress, operating from the most intelligent part of your brain, you're operating from your frontal cortex. You're not operating from your primal brain. When you make decisions in advance about how things are going to go, that’s how I always like talk about time management. When you decide in advance, how your week's going to go, you're operating it from the most intelligent part of your brain.
Brian (29:42):
This is my what if book. In here, my what if scenarios. What if this happens? What if that happens? How would I respond? And not only do I write them out myself, I share them with my advisors. I get their input.
Laura (29:56):
Oh, that's great. Cause then you can just implement.
Brian (29:59):
Well, that's literally it. Yes. So it's in case of emergency and what that does for you too. One, it helps you avoid making bad decisions. Right? And two, it keeps your downtime limited to a minimum.
Laura (30:14):
Right? So smart. I love that. That's such great advice. So you're filled with great advice and I know you're also surrounded by people who are filled with great advice. So tell us a little bit about the project you're working on right now.
Brian (30:28):
So Small Business Edge is a global community platform for business owners and it has about four foundations, four cornerstones to its foundation. And it's, think of it as like a market network. So it's Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook meets Airbnb and Uber and eBay. So there's an opportunity to build your network, meet likeminded people, collaborate with them, share best practices, ask questions, and then we'll have a marketplace section where you can buy and sell products and services to other business owner members. And we have sponsors, there's a Q&A section. So whatever is keeping you up at night. We have right now, 75 subject matter experts who can help answer your questions. So whether it's cashflow or technology or investing, we think about this, think about business being like a road trip and you come to these forks in the road, right? Do I go left? Do I go right?
(31:38):
And a fork in the road is like opening a new location, hiring a new employee, investing, you know, getting outside investments for your company. Do I go left or do I go right? And a lot of times business owners make these decisions in a vacuum. Think about the ramifications of their decisions. You can ask us and we'll help you. And so we have a Q&A section. We have original content by some really smart people. We're going to have a live Q&A sessions, webcasts podcasts, tweet, chats, a marketplace, which I mentioned and we'll have communities. So for like-minded business owners, we'll have one for women, for veterans, for startups, for gen Z. It's exciting.
Laura (32:31):
I love the diversity. So, you know, when you were saying, a lot of times they operate in a vacuum. A lot of times the echo chamber is their own industry, right? Like I came from the photography industry and everybody is just running the same marketing programs. They're running the same sales programs. Like they're just regurgitating what one another is saying. And it got to a certain point where I was like, I got to get some outside perspective because we're all running the marketing programs. And it's just like, it's templated, but it doesn't necessarily resonate with maybe my market or my direction or my sense of purpose. So I love that you have such a diversity. I think some people think they can learn from other industries and categories. And I'm always a big fan of like, like my best strategies have come from another industry. Like if I'm working in beauty, my best strategy came from a fitness idea, you know, idea or something like that. Like it's because no one else is doing it. That's why it's awesome.
Brian (33:23):
That's how you think outside the box. A lot of time innovation comes from the strangest places.
Laura (33:27):
Totally. Yeah. Thanks again, Brian. And we'll see you all next time.
Brian (33:33):
Thanks Laura.
Laura (33:36):
Make sure to visit our website, www.joybrand.com/podcast where you can subscribe to the show in iTunes, Stitcher, or RSS so that you'll never miss an episode. While you're at it, if you find a value in this show, we'd appreciate a rating on iTunes or if you just simply tell a friend about it, that would help us out a lot too. Thanks so much for listening.
The Scale with Joy podcast dives into the mindset and strategies of scaling your company to the million dollar mark and beyond. Each week, we follow the journeys of innovators, disruptors, experts and leaders - sharing behind the scenes stories of their most challenging moments and greatest lessons learned-all while building their multi-million dollar empires.