#149: Winning the Game of Business and Tennis (Part 2: Identity)
It's often said that tennis is a lot like business. There are endless parallels between the two realms, from the importance of strategy and preparation to the need for mental toughness and focus.
But what does that actually mean? In this blog post, I'm going to break down 10 ways that business and tennis are similar, drawing on my own experiences as both a marketer and a competitive player. Hopefully by the end, you'll see just how valuable tennis can be for businesses (and vice versa!).
1. Strategic Thinking
Both tennis and business require strategic thinking in order to succeed. In tennis, players must consider their opponents’ strengths and weaknesses while developing a plan of attack that best uses their own skills. Similarly, in business, managers must assess the competitive landscape and develop strategies for success.
2. Focus on Results
Tennis and business both require players and leaders to focus on results. Whether it is executing a winning shot or making the right decision in a boardroom, success requires having your eye on the prize.
3. Teamwork
Both tennis and business involve working with others in order to achieve success. In tennis, players must be able to coordinate their shots and engage in communication with their doubles partners. Similarly, in business, teams must work together to solve problems, develop new products and services, and compete for market share.
4. Hard Work
Tennis and business both require hard work and dedication. Professional tennis players spend countless hours training, while business leaders need to stay informed on industry trends and dedicate time to developing strategies and plans.
5. ADAPTABILITY
Tennis players must constantly adjust their approach depending on the situation, whether it’s playing a different opponent or dealing with unexpected weather conditions. In business, leaders must be able to quickly adjust strategies in response to changing economic conditions or customer needs.
6. Resilience
Tennis and business both require resilience in order to succeed. Players must be able to handle setbacks and business leaders must be able to persevere even when facing challenges.
7. Mental Toughness
Both tennis and business involve a certain amount of mental toughness to succeed. Professional tennis players must have the mental fortitude to stay focused during long matches. Business leaders must have the mental strength to make difficult decisions for the good of their organization.
8. Creative Problem Solving
Both tennis and business involve creative problem solving in order to find solutions. Tennis players need to be able to think quickly on the court in order to create winning shots, while business leaders must be able to think outside the box in order to come up with innovative solutions.
9. Risk Taking
Tennis and business both involve taking risks in order to gain success. Players must be willing to take calculated risks on the court, while business leaders must be willing to take chances and try new things in order to stay competitive.
10. Passion
Finally, tennis and business both require passion in order to succeed. Tennis players must have a deep love for the game in order to reach the top levels of play, while business leaders need to be passionate about their vision, mission and values in order to inspire others around them.
Listen to the Show:
Laura 00:01
Welcome to the Next Level Leap podcast. I'm your host, Laura Meyer top growth strategist to some of the country's fastest growing brands, and mentor to consultants. My signature leap methodology has changed the way 1000s of companies look at growth strategy, and this podcast shares, best practices, and inspirational interviews to help you make that next level leap in your business. Stick around and join me as I share the journey of how we as founders can multiply our income impact and influence by landing on the other side of our next big leap. Let's go!
Laura 00:47
Alright, everybody, welcome back to this incredible conversation about the parallels between the game of business in the game of tennis, I am here with the guys from No Man's Land tennis podcast, really incredible backgrounds, and perspectives when it comes to how we apply business and tennis, to some of the lessons that we can learn and even life in general. And so if you missed part one, make sure you go back and listen to it, you're going to learn all about their backgrounds and, and some of the wisdom that they have to share. And now we're here in part two, and we're going to be talking about identity. And one of the reasons why I wanted to first talk about mindset. And then identity is identity is one of the things I have personally struggled with the most as an entrepreneur, is to see myself as that new version, basically having to reinvent myself, at every stage of growth, that the person that's bringing in $100,000 a year is not the same person that brings in 500, or a million and having to release and basically let go of the person that's getting me to where it is that I am now, giving up that identity in exchange for a future one was, is still one of the most difficult challenges that I have. And I think this is probably so true in tennis as well. So we're going to be talking about this coming into this next episode. And welcome back. Cole, Keith and Freddy, so glad that you're here.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 02:13 Thanks for having us again.
Laura 02:19
Here we go. So what do you think =, when it comes to identity, do you think that there is a difference between being number one at the game and being the best? Like what do you think those differences are?
Cole, Freddy & Keith 02:34
I think of two polar opposites. I think a Roger Federer, I think of think of Novak Djokovic, but Roger Federer is even regarded in my eyes as sort of the greatest sportsman. And to me that that's just, that's consistently being an advocate and ambassador for the game. Your results help that. But sort of how you, you know, you represent the sport, that's what makes him the
best to me. And, you know, being grateful for what the game has done for you, and wanting to do that, and give that opportunity to others around you and, and kids and, you know, keep building the game. And then the great of being number one, right? So it hurts me to say this as a Fed fan, but And Fred I think this is probably the first time you'll hear me say this but Joe kovich is probably the best number one or the greatest tennis player of all time. Yeah, IT right to hurt but he's made some questionable decisions. He was defaulted from, you know, the US Open for hitting a line judge he held a tour held like Sir this bulk in Serbian toward during COVID. And then, you know, sort of just his mannerisms on court don't necessarily make him look like the most approachable guy. So, but, but it works for him, right? So it's sort of that inner fire and edginess and sort of that villain mentality that he has that has propelled him to be the greatest in the game or the best number one in the game. But I'll always defer to who will decide I'll take is the ambassador side because it's so much more than just your results in the sport. I think I think Roger Federer is just the absolute personification of what it means to be a tennis player. And, you know, he continues to grow the game even though the game was taken away from him with his injury.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 04:55
Keith, I know you have some good thoughts on this. You wrote you wrote a little essay about this.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 04:59
I was going to let Well, I was going to Yeah, I mean, I wrote on our website, I wrote an article about this. And I think, cool, you actually went a different direction, I thought you're going to go there, I think he kind of hit it really well, as somebody who went to business school, he talked about being a good stakeholder and a good business owner, business owner, and Djokovic has not been the greatest stakeholder for the game of tennis. And I wrote this article that that Novak Djokovic was the goat in terms of like the greatest of all time, the modern day. And I'm going to date myself here, because I always sound like a 65 year old man, but also the old school version of the goat, which was like somebody who did not live up to expectations and somebody who, like, you know, really kind of let people down. That's what they used to use the term goat for, and talked about that. And as, as Cole, perfectly said, that's the difference between being number one and being the best a little bit. Not only beside the fact that I think a lot of us here think Federer is the most talented guy to ever to ever grab a tennis racket I do at least. But I also think that in the same regard, Roger Federer was probably the mentally weakest amongst the three greats that all played on time, he talks about that at length about how he lost certain matches, and just felt like he couldn't want to set over that person. And that's a little bit of a difference, too. We can harp on Djokovic we can refer for being a maybe a less ambassador and that kind of stuff. But he had this mindset that it just didn't look like you can drive a tank through. And that's what probably made him number one. And that's what probably makes him the greatest tennis player of all time. So yeah, there's two different places
to go with that. There is to answer your question, is there a difference? There's a massive difference.
Laura 06:40
Already, what if somebody is on your team and they're like, but I just want to be the number one seed or I just want to be first single? Yeah,
Cole, Freddy & Keith 06:48
Yeah, it's, it's tough, I actually kind of have that on my team a little bit. Right now, there's, I've kind of got two guys who are pretty, I would say, similar as tennis players, but one of them is super, super talented, but fluctuates quite a bit. And the other one is, maybe not quite as talented, but it's just going to be the gritty competitor. And I know what I'm going to get from him day in and day out. And that is why he is the number one player on our team. And he may lose to the guy who's playing to, and the guy who's playing to may have some better results at times. But when you just know that it's almost kind of like that Joe kovich mentality, like he said, it's like, you're going to have to drive a tank through this guy before, he's going to give up the number one spot, because of the way that he's going to fight and compete and be relentless, every single point where the other guy is a lot more fun to watch. And he hits some flashy shots, and he looks incredible, and everything looks so effortless. But it doesn't have that same sort of relentless, relentless grit, that the guy who plays number one on our team does.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 07:53
Yeah, that's an excellent comparison. I thought Fred was talking about me for a second with the flashy and then missing 15 balls in a row. So thanks, Fred, for not pointing me out there.
Laura 08:07
It's really interesting, as I'm hearing you speak to two things that come to mind for me and
what I see happening in the business world. The first is perfectionism. I think when it comes to being number one, we want to be number one, because we want to be perfect, right? It comes from like an achieve, and a diet desire to achieve. Versus being the best is, is, it's, there's no way to be perfect at that. There's no way to be perfect at the best. There's just, it's your best, right? And it's you're competing with yourself at that point, versus other people. And that's like a totally different game. And it's actually a much more enjoyable game. Because it's, it's your decision as to what that means. And whereas when we compete, you know, I want the most social media followers or I want the best affiliate deals or whatever, like, that is just a never ending disappointment, really, because there's always going to be somebody who's better. And I think that's something that as we can get comfortable with in, in, in business, and in tennis, we just learn to play our own game. It's like play your game, right. And the second thing is consistency Friday, what you just said is like, so incredible in both tennis and business,
because it's never the best strategy that wins the game of business. Never people come to me and they want great strategy. And I'll give them great strategy. But if there's not a solid implementation plan, implementation will always win over strategy every day of the week, great implementation whenever a great strategy any day of the week. And when we think about the consistency and consistency wins the game. You know, it does that showing up and being willing to be consistent, don't get distracted and change your strategy and then wonder why you're not winning. Or those are the people that you see like, going really big in the industry, and then all of a sudden the following year, they don't even offer that program anymore. You're like what habit, that was like a big thing. And it was because of that consistency. So good.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 10:06
Now there's something my dad used to say there lar, which is he always used to talk about consistency, and inconsistency, which was if you get somebody who is flashy and that kind of stuff, they may be consistent because my dad used to say they were consistently inconsistent. And, and that's kind of like the two different mental the two different identities or mindsets you can have in that it's consistency with a purpose. And then it's just a flash in the pan. Let's try to fix this with a band aid type thing.
Laura 10:32
Yeah, yeah. And also, like a couple of the players we mentioned, you know, Kyrgios. You know, we talk about, like, even McEnroe? Oh, yeah, that, that. That's where a lot of the temper comes from, right. And the instability comes from, I think, is this feeling of like, it has to be perfect. If it's not perfect, then I'm going to lose my mind. Just kind of a tough way to live.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 10:55
I think McEnroe is actually a great way to describe consistency, because his anger used to focus himself. So he was consistently angry. And it would kind of put them in a really good mental mindset, where he would like occasionally he would cause him to default. But like most of the time, we were on board used to say it all the time. You'd watch McEnroe blow up and he goes, Don't worry, he's going to win the next two points. And like nobody else would do that. So nobody wants to be married to that. Well, that's been proven time and time again with John McEnroe. But we can go somewhere else with that conversation.
Laura 11:24
Yeah, it's like what do you want to hear really?
Cole, Freddy & Keith 11:29
Yeah. It was just said the flip side of that with curious is, it doesn't seem like the anger and aggression works for him. Yeah. I just, it seems like it's more of a when he gets angry. He wants to do anything but be on a tennis court. And then he'll check out by the end of the
match. Yeah. So you just guy. I don't know. He's an enigma. He really isn't anything. But to me, I sometimes he goes through periods where he looks like he is the greatest player ever. Yes. And then there's other periods where he just doesn't look like he should be anywhere near a court.
Laura 12:04
Yeah, you heard of the pros saying, like, and breakpoint, you know, I wish I had his talent. But then, you know, it doesn't work out for six months or something like that. That's not going to work. So yeah, it's so it's so fascinating to just look at those parallels. What do you think? How do you think identity like the way that we see ourselves plays into our ability to succeed?
Cole, Freddy & Keith 12:30
Why I love this question. I think there are so many different identities that any person can have that they completely sets the foundation for their game. In tennis. I used to have one of my favorite students, Ben Baird, I hope you listen to this. He was a huge, Grateful Dead fan. And he used to tell me all the time, during a lesson, he goes, Keith, I spent half my day tune in my instrument and half the day playing out of tune. And I used to love that line. That was Ben's identity. And it was we started kind of building his game around that little bit. And he got a lot better working with me. And it was the fun part of like working with somebody like that, where you kind of like I remember for me as like a teacher used to teach people. So your job was to hit the ball in the perfect spot all the time and help mountain teach him. But when Ben was tuned in his instrument, I started kicking the snot out of him during the middle of the lesson. And then he'd go, Okay, keep him back. And he can come back into the lesson. And your identity kind of sets how you how you act. And we just touched on curious right there a little bit. And I think his identity is how he is curious as a guy personally, I think that hates the pressure. That's kind of his identity, he hates pressure, he hates being out there alone on that island. And so when he yells and acts out, it's because he feels like he's by himself a little bit. I'm not justifying any of his actions. But that's just, that's just what I feel. Whereas other people's identity, like Djokovic, who we talked about is that of like, steely determination, I'm going to do whatever I can to win this point, I'm going to do this and the doll. Like, you know, one of the biggest fighters, he's going to do whatever he can, but all those guys identity set up the way they play their game a little bit. And so it helps you succeed, or can help you be very unsuccessful, sometimes as a tennis player, depending on which way you let your identity take you.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 14:13
Yeah, I think kind of, like you said, Keith, it really sets the foundation of who you're trying to be as a tennis player. Because if you go out there and one day, you're going to try and just make every ball and then one day you're going to go out and try and hit a winner on every third ball or one day you're going to serve a mollu or one day, you're feeling super fit. And then the next
day, all of a sudden, you can't even play more than one set, it's you got to figure out what that identity is. So you can sort of steer the ship in the right direction. Because if, if you're a little lost with your identity, your game is going to be all over the place which then leads to inconsistency which then leads to negative mindset which just plays into everything we've been talking about through this whole segment. And I think knowing which identity and looking inwards just kind of that where it all starts? Because if you can't figure that part out, then the rest of it really can't fall into place.
Laura 15:06
Yeah, and I'm curious as a follow up to that, like, let's say somebody moves from high school to college, like, how does their identity change? Do you think as a player?
Cole, Freddy & Keith 15:16
I mean, from experience for me, I was best player in my high school, I think I lost one match all of high school, I go to college, and instantly I was number 12, out of 12, guys, bottom of the totem pole. And I went from being top 75 in the country best in my high school to now being the bottom of the pole. And it's a tough pill to swallow. But I think it really I was lucky at Virginia Tech, we had some really good mental coaches. And I just had lots of conversations, again, to really figure out what my identity was, was I going to just be okay with having a fun college experience and being number 12 And just using tennis to maybe just work out and just kind of be a part of the team and be part of something bigger than me? Or did I really want to try and work my way up the totem pole, and have everything else that comes with that. And that's kind of what I determined tonight took my first year off of competing and I redshirted and so I basically just trained and kind of really tried to hone in on why I was there really tried to figure out like, we did an exercise, knowing your why. And I really just had to dig deep and figure out, why am I here? Why am I waking up at 6am every day to go to lift weights and be on the tennis court for three hours a day and go on runs and do these extra exercises and really set the foundation for me to kind of have a career in tennis. I think if you had told high school me that I was going to become a college tennis coach, in my first year out of college, I just would have laughed at you and said probably not.
Laura 16:49
Or even being 12 out of 12 Guys, and that. Oh, yeah. That was a defining moment. Yep. 100%. Yeah.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 16:58
I just wanted to mention this is that I think if part of your identity is not trying to get the best out of yourself, then I think part of your identity in well, but isn't the come off wrong is a little flawed. If that's not what you're trying to do with every step, when it comes to your tenants life or your personal life or your business life, then then that part of your identity needs to kind of be found,
it's getting the little bit of the best out of what you can do in every moment. Because that's what that's what allows you to grow and become better, a lot of ways because that allows maybe what you do like what Fred talked about, whether it's you have a game style, like Fred who plays aggressive or game style, like a lot of other people's like the grind. But if you're if your identity is still trying to get better, you get the best out of both those aspects, you get the best and you start growing. And that's the big point, the big part of identity when it comes to tennis, and really helping you out as a player.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 17:52
I'll be the first to tell you that my identity on a tennis court is sort of lost right now. I play again, probably really, for the first time and consistently since high school. I mean, high school was five times a week, really, you know, and I had a coach who played at Duke, he was getting the best out of me, you know, every day at practice, but sort of picking up picking up that racket again, and playing competitively. And coping with the fact that you're not you're not at the level you once were. Oh, yeah, hard. It's really hard. And then you're maybe also playing in a league where you know that you should be beating these people handedly and you're not and you're losing a match. Yeah. It's, it's humbling. And it's, it's something I really I don't I can't tell you, I can't tell you what, what my identity is right now on a tennis court. I can't tell you what my ranking is. I can't tell you what league I shouldn't be playing in. These guys know, these two have seen me hit balls and they know probably where I should be. But it's, it's you know, it's a constant battle and we'll figure it out. We'll keep figuring it out.
Laura 18:59
What I tell my students is if reinvention doesn't feel awful, you're doing it wrong. It feels awful. Like it's really, you know, it's it shouldn't feel good to reinvent yourself. It's, it's kind of just messy. It's like when a caterpillar turns into a butterfly, it actually literally dissolves in the cocoon turns almost into like Caterpillar soup. before it becomes a butterfly. There is this part of like really kind of ugly aspect of reinvention that I think a lot of people just don't want to deal with the discomfort. So they don't, they don't grow, right. They don't transform. They don't allow that to happen. But there's a couple of things I'm hearing that I think is so helpful for our listeners to point out the first is Friday, what you were talking about with why one of the top business books in the last decade you probably know is Simon Sinek Start with Why and I think a lot of people for Get their why they lose their why they can they make their why somebody else's why? Maybe it's their coach, maybe it's their somebody that they look up to online and it's in, it's really important to get back to that when you are in this identity shift. And the second is like, let it feel awful. That's fine. Because for so what I
Laura 20:24
One of the things that I do is I certify marketing professionals essentially into becoming growth consultants. The hardest shift is identity, I used to be this person that runs ads. Now I'm the
person that's getting paid to just provide advice around ads. I used to write coffee. Now I'm the person that's providing strategy advice on how the coffee should be used. That identity shift is one of the hardest things that people go to. And what they do is they go back to writing all the coffee when they're not getting paid to. And then they get in trouble. Where they'll say, Who am I to? I hear that a lot. Like who am I to give advice on this business? I've never owned a business like that. But the truth is, is like Federer is better than his coach. Right? Like, if you look at ranking, but the best coaches aren't always the best players. They're the best coaches. And I think if that's your identity, you know, if you're if you're a better advisor, you know, it wasn't necessarily King Arthur, you know, who was the genius behind his strategy. It was his, you know, it was his philosopher, it was his advisor, it was his priest that was behind the scenes helping to make it all happen if that's your identity, that's awesome, too. So I think it's just like, that whole piece of it, I think is it's such a kind of a mind, FUCK for anybody who has kids. But it is it's so important to be able to be aware around
Cole, Freddy & Keith 21:50
We all just lost a bet because we all thought I'd be the first one to curse on the podcast. So thank you for thank you for taking that away. There was a thing that you said in there that I loved. And when it comes to being okay with failure. I remember one of my high end junior players, we completely rebuilt his game during one of the off seasons. And like it really turned them into like a big surge in volume with big with big games and that kind of stuff. And I remember it was six or seven months into working with him. He had just an awful lesson. I mean, just shaking balls is not in a great mental spot wasn't moving. And he like got mad. And like, you know, I understood he was 1718 year old kid cursed like you know, that kind of stuff. And I said bull, as last name was bull. If the player you were six months ago played against today, your worst player now this guy would kick the snot out of them, this guy would still just absolutely take him to the woodshed on your worst day. So when you have that mindset of failure and being in like, you know, being ugly, Caterpillar, whatever you want to or whatever you want to call it, you have to understand there is growth, and you have probably gotten better in that time span as well. You probably have improved on a lot of ways that you just don't give yourself credit for.
Laura 23:05
Yeah, you're on your way. Yeah. And I ran into the same thing when I got back into tennis. It's like, I'm not, I'm not a recreational suburb. You know, but it's like I wasn't I wasn't at that level where I could reassume that identity. I'm still building back up to it.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 23:26
For the viewers out there. Laura is kind of a little you know, she may be tiny but she's mighty title tennis player hits with two hands off both wings if my memory serves me. And, and I remember we did like a fun play around thing at the club, like, you know, and I was just playing
very light. And then like, I hit like a little soft serve and Laura and came in behind it, like walked in behind it. And the ball was like by me. I'm like, Oh, I'm like it's time. It's time to play today a little bit.
Laura 23:55
Yeah, it's just the consistency. That's right.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 23:59
She gave a fist bump and everything. It was great. It was a fun little fast for Round Robin. I got one of these in the middle. I was like, All right, Laura. Let's go to town.
Laura 24:09
My husband's like, what do I do? I'm like, get the call. Cool. That's the goal here. So a couple last questions. Such a good conversation. I wish we could keep it going all day. But we all have places to go and people to see. So in the most recent Grand Slam Stefanos Tsitsipas, was quoted as saying he believes the champion is within him and the champion is blooming. He has now lost two grand slams in a row at the final round. Why do you think this was an important stance for him to take?
Cole, Freddy & Keith 24:42
I think that's one of them. When I heard that, that statement, I thought it was one of the more powerful statements because for context for that. He lost the Djokovic in the French Open final. I was two years ago guys now. Was that the two years or is that last year? Two or three years. to go and it was five set great match that he probably should have won. And this last one at the Australian Open, he got, he got beat down pretty hard. It was a, it was nothing finals, right sets. And I remember sitting there, when that match was done saying that Stefano Tsitsipas was a mentally weaker player, he would have lost that final six to six to six, two. But instead, he like really fought and lost like two and a tiebreaker. And that's what I think he's talking about the champion is blooming because he had probably his c minus game and that match and really made it more interesting than it should have been. And I think it just goes to show that it's, it's not just the stuff you bring every day, but it's how it's the mental mindset that you're bringing, when it comes to how you're how you're going to attack the day, your business life, your tennis career, whatever you want to call it. Because that's what I thought, that's what I took out of the match, which was, he had a Champions mindset during that match, even though he had a bad day at the office. And I thought that's, and I thought that was a really, and he had a bad day in the office in front of God knows how many millions of people. And that's the worst place to have a bad day at the office. And he took it in a way that that said, Hey, this is I'm going to learn from this. But I think he learned something from it in the middle of the match to I don't think he left and had time to think about it. And what I'm going to learn something from this, I
think in the middle of the match, she was probably proud of himself for grinding really hard and making something out of what should have been a blowout.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 26:32
Yeah. Yeah, you're spot on. I think he easily, probably even two or three years ago, he would have just rolled over, because he wasn't happy with the way he was playing. And having that mental fortitude to just be able to, even though like you said he had a c minus game, he still made on paper, if you didn't watch a minute of the match, he would have looked at the score and said, Wow, what a great final. But if you actually watched the match, I don't think he was happy with the way he played his coaches, even probably some of the fans and, and so to be able to keep it that close, I think just shows how close he is mentally to maybe a big breakthrough. So this could be a big year for him. Yeah,
Cole, Freddy & Keith 27:15
I think he I think he probably looks at the body of work as well. I know that. He's got a brother that he tours with sometimes his dad's is coach, and you know, he's won big tournaments before. So when your confidence is low, you sort of got to go back and look at everything that you have achieved, and know that it's close. And he's I think he's somebody that I think three of us probably maybe all four of us agree that he's going to win a slam. Like we I definitely think he's going to win a Grand Slam. It's just the talent is incredible. And his work ethic is even better than the talent. Yeah, so I think it's I think it's on the way fairly soon I picked him to win the Australian Open and when you run into Djokovic It's hard. But I think it's I think he's do I think he's do
Laura 28:08
Yeah, I think he'll win one cuz he thinks he won one.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 28:11
Yeah, that's what I love Are you hit the nail on the head. Fred and I have talked about that at length. Yeah. There's nothing discernible you can pick apart from his game. It's like well, he does this so much better than everybody else. But that mental mindset he has he just grinds his way and keeps himself competitive all the time.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 28:28
He's matured as well. I think he's absolutely matured. I remember last year Wimbledon a year ago. I mean, he got bullied off the court by Nick Curious was in his circus like he was doing all the antics and everything and stuff, let it affect him. And I think that's probably just, you know, youth maybe or, you know, I don't I don't know. But it seems like he's in a way better headspace. Recent more and more so now than it was in the past. Yeah.
Laura 28:56
Hard when you're up against the circus. It's not like you practice that very well.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 29:00
No, he has never trained with me Laura.
Laura 29:04
Actually, that I would believe is pretty, any thoughts on that?
Cole, Freddy & Keith 29:14
Yeah. I mean, kind of like what they both said. But I think, yeah, like we said, I think this could be his year. I think he's close. And I don't think it really has much to do with the tennis. I think, hopefully, it seems like he does a lot of stuff off the court. He has a blog and a YouTube channel on some of this stuff. And I think he's getting a little more comfortable with his identity. And I think that really does kind of play into how you perform on the court and put yourself in that good mental headspace and maybe be able to deal with some of these extracurriculars on the court that someone like curious brings. And so I think if you really are at peace and comfortable and happy with a lot of the off court stuff If it's starting to show on the court.
Laura 30:03
Oh, that's so good. And so similar to business in that sense, in that, we actually, I perform my best when I'm spending a lot of time with my family. Like when I'm, you know, happy at home happy with the amount of time I'm spending with each kid, they seem happy and settled, like, then I can be really at my best in business and when it's, it feels like that's being compromised. It actually works. You know, working more in the business doesn't fix that, actually. And I think a lot of people overwork in their business, because they don't, they haven't gone through that learning process, which is so interesting. So I'm going to finish with a last question. I'd love all of you to weigh in on so you can jump in when you feel ready. But what do you think is required to work on the emotional mental state of a of a champion, somebody who's winning at their game?
Cole, Freddy & Keith 30:58
I think, I mean, we talked a little bit about and you talked about it with Iga Swiatek earlier, but she hired a mental coach. And so I think being able to be vulnerable enough to have those conversations, because I think it's easy to say, oh, let's talk about this stuff. But if you don't actually believe it, or buy into it, or if you're not vulnerable enough to really believe it, it's not going to do you much good. And so I think the best players in the world have been able to do that and open themselves up a little bit, whether it's to a mental coach, or just to their tennis coach, or maybe their significant other or whoever it may be, but kind of finding that outlet and being vulnerable enough to kind of figure out what it is that you need to tap into mentally to be
able to get to the next level. Because I think a lot of people, especially in a sport, like tennis, you've had, you've gotten to this point in your career, because you've done pretty much everything on your own, because it is an individual sport. And I think it's hard for people to lean on others for help, because you're just going to shoulder the load, because it's what you've been used to doing your whole life, physically and even mentally when you're growing up playing junior tennis, in high school, tennis, and even college tennis. And so I think having that vulnerability and being able to let people in and let people help you help yourself.
Laura 32:17 That's powerful.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 32:19
I would say embracing the grind. I know. Tennis is hard. I mean, you're an independent contractor. You're in your they're in where are they? They're in Dubai right now. And they're going to be in Indian Wells next week. And it's a week and it's jetlag, and it's traveling, and you're away from family, for long, long periods of time, especially if you're, you know, a lower level ranked player that can't pay for people to fly with you. So it's really finding what makes you happy, outside of your performance on the court. So if you're if you got to go play a lower level tournament in Thailand, let's find something in Thailand that interests you while you're there, or let's find something that, you know, makes your days go by a little bit easier. Something that you enjoy, really diving into your surroundings, because to me, and I know, it's probably easy for me to say this because I'm not an ATP player. But if I'm going from airport to hotel to tennis court, then back to the hotel into the airport, what's the point of playing on tour isn't part of the beauty, you know, seeing all these different places and getting your worldview and, and increasing that. So I think that goes into your mentality and sort of that being grateful for what's around you. And I think if you're just happy in your surroundings, that's just definitely going to translate to your results and your mentality.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 33:56
Think what makes and I talked about this what makes us a little bit of fun is that Fred and Cole and I'm so glad and happy to go after Fred because Fred's answer was just that cool way to take one there was is it we talked about Nally tennis on a professional level but also as we call it, tennis for the everyman, that's we talked about a lot of our stuff is, is how to make tennis more enjoyable and more fun for people like all of us here that just want to play to have fun. And you talked about being a champion, but there is a mental and emotional state that comes into being a champion, whether you're 30-35-45, all the way up until when you start getting into the higher echelons of the amateur game. And I want to play with so Fred, that's what Fred struggles with. Fred's got to play a money tournament and then and then slam it with me as his partner for him to play with somebody. But when, when you're when you're the lower level players and that kind of stuff, sometimes that emotional mental state is just simple direction.
It's just simply being on target with what you're trying to work on and what you're trying to accomplish and we spoke about that in the prior episode, which is just, here's the two things I'm going to focus on. And I'm going to mentally commit to that I'm going to emotionally be attached to that, to that process that's going into this, that's going into this because it's so easy to let emotions and mentality wandering waste all your energy. And I think for the amateur for the amateur tennis player, and then maybe, like, you know, translating to business is it's being mentally and emotionally committed to what you're trying to do for that for that match for that point for whatever you're doing in that moment.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 35:31
Yes. I'm going to summarize what I just heard you say. So many good tips in there. And then what I want you to let everybody know where to find you moving forward. So first thing I heard is be willing to do the boring work, right. And I think businesses a lot of that, too. It's like, Yeah, you don't want to do the p&l reveal. Yeah, you don't want to write the SOP the like, that's the thing that you do to get to where you want to be. There might be days, tennis players wake up, and they don't want to work out that day. They don't like lifting lifting weights, they really like just running around the court, you know, there's the thing, it's like doing the boring work is so underrated. In becoming the top of your game. The second is know who you are outside of the game. Because when we can know who we are outside of the game, winning and losing so much of a it lessens the the impact of what it means right for our own identity. Like we don't become defined by the losses and the wins, we become defined by who we who we are holistically, it makes a lot easier to tolerate those ups and downs. And the third thing I hear is commit to the process. I think I see a lot of newer entrepreneurs struggle with those are people who are looking to make a shift maybe in one of my programs. And they are like, I'm going to do this process until I hit a roadblock. And then I'm no longer going to do the process, right. And then what we want to do is commit to the process, like choose a process, commit to the process, probably all roads lead to where you want to be. But if we switch around the processes, we're never gonna get there. So really good advice. Just to wrap up, thank you so much for coming here. Having these great conversations people may want to connect with you individually or go to learn more about your podcast where where should they go?
Cole, Freddy & Keith 37:23
Yeah, we're launching, relaunching our website and ml tennis.com. And then on social media, all of our handles are and NML underscore tennis on Instagram and Twitter and tic tac and then each of us have our own individual platforms as well. I think mine is just my name Freddy Mesmer.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 37:45 Mine's just Cole Werneke.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 37:48
And he can't be simpler than that. I mean, we really appreciate you having us on Laura. And for all those who are listening, we just do general banter about this. We'll go from everything from the tour life to how to make tennis more fun for people like us and more accessible. So then it grows the game a little bit that way. We want to talk about what makes tennis fun. So yeah.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 38:08
And thank you for challenging us with your questions. Because we don't we I mean, we got we get deep here, but we don't necessarily get deep on ours.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 38:19
We are three 20 something year old guys. We're about as deep as a puddle.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 38:24
So we appreciate that. It's a different, different way of looking at the game and applying it to business and we appreciate you putting us in that mindset.
Laura 38:34
Yeah, this is so fun to talk about. I appreciate you being willing to help the conversation and just excited for you and growing your own podcast for those of you who are like What's no man's land, it's the place you don't want to stand on the tennis court because you end up getting stuck. So that's what that is. And if you want to learn more, make sure you visit the podcast. Thank you everybody for tuning in. If you love this episode, let us know make sure you check out the show notes subscribe and leave a comment and I'll see you on the next episode of the next level the podcast.
Laura 39:05
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Welcome to the Next Level Leap Podcast! Join our guide, Laura Meyer, a 20-year entrepreneur and growth strategist for some of the country's fastest-growing nonprofit and for-profit organizations, as she shares her insights and strategies for using marketing to make a difference in the world. In each episode, we explore how marketing can create a ripple effect of change that impacts lives and communities for years to come. From social media to branding to storytelling, we cover a range of topics to help you harness the power of marketing for good. So if you're ready to make waves and spread joy, tune in to the Next Level Leap Podcast podcast and let's create a marketing ripple effect that changes the world!