#149: Winning the Game of Business and Tennis (Part 1: Mindset)
It's often said that tennis is a lot like business. There are endless parallels between the two realms, from the importance of strategy and preparation to the need for mental toughness and focus.
But what does that actually mean? In this blog post, I'm going to break down 10 ways that business and tennis are similar, drawing on my own experiences as both a marketer and a competitive player. Hopefully by the end, you'll see just how valuable tennis can be for businesses (and vice versa!).
1. Strategic Thinking
Both tennis and business require strategic thinking in order to succeed. In tennis, players must consider their opponents’ strengths and weaknesses while developing a plan of attack that best uses their own skills. Similarly, in business, managers must assess the competitive landscape and develop strategies for success.
2. Focus on Results
Tennis and business both require players and leaders to focus on results. Whether it is executing a winning shot or making the right decision in a boardroom, success requires having your eye on the prize.
3. Teamwork
Both tennis and business involve working with others in order to achieve success. In tennis, players must be able to coordinate their shots and engage in communication with their doubles partners. Similarly, in business, teams must work together to solve problems, develop new products and services, and compete for market share.
4. Hard Work
Tennis and business both require hard work and dedication. Professional tennis players spend countless hours training, while business leaders need to stay informed on industry trends and dedicate time to developing strategies and plans.
5. ADAPTABILITY
Tennis players must constantly adjust their approach depending on the situation, whether it’s playing a different opponent or dealing with unexpected weather conditions. In business, leaders must be able to quickly adjust strategies in response to changing economic conditions or customer needs.
6. Resilience
Tennis and business both require resilience in order to succeed. Players must be able to handle setbacks and business leaders must be able to persevere even when facing challenges.
7. Mental Toughness
Both tennis and business involve a certain amount of mental toughness to succeed. Professional tennis players must have the mental fortitude to stay focused during long matches. Business leaders must have the mental strength to make difficult decisions for the good of their organization.
8. Creative Problem Solving
Both tennis and business involve creative problem solving in order to find solutions. Tennis players need to be able to think quickly on the court in order to create winning shots, while business leaders must be able to think outside the box in order to come up with innovative solutions.
9. Risk Taking
Tennis and business both involve taking risks in order to gain success. Players must be willing to take calculated risks on the court, while business leaders must be willing to take chances and try new things in order to stay competitive.
10. Passion
Finally, tennis and business both require passion in order to succeed. Tennis players must have a deep love for the game in order to reach the top levels of play, while business leaders need to be passionate about their vision, mission and values in order to inspire others around them.
Listen to the Show:
Laura 00:01
Welcome to the Next Level Leap podcast. I'm your host, Laura Meyer top growth strategist to some of the country's fastest growing brands, and mentor to consultants. My signature leap methodology has changed the way 1000s of companies look at growth strategy, and this podcast shares, best practices, and inspirational interviews to help you make that next level leap in your business. Stick around and join me as I share the journey of how we as founders can multiply our income impact and influence by landing on the other side of our next big leap. Let's go!
Laura 00:46
Hey, everybody, today is a special two part episode. Because many of you know that I love tennis, but you probably don't know exactly how much and today you're about to find out. So I'm here with three really awesome tennis experts. They have their own podcast, so you need to look it up. It's called No Man's Land Tennis and I am friends locally with one of these three guys. Maybe as they're introducing themselves, you can kind of guess who and then we're going to get into all things tennis and mindset. Now listen, if you're listening and you don't like tennis, you don't know anything about it, you don't play it, don't leave. This is going to be a really incredible episode that no matter what type of business you have, or what type of entrepreneur you have, there will be incredible parallels that's going to make you fall in love with tennis. So we're going to get right into it in a minute. So why don't we start Keith, why don't you start with introducing yourself and then you can share a little bit about how we know each other.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 01:41
Thanks, Laura. Yeah, so I am Laura's friend I've had the pleasure of, of maybe beaten up online a little bit if we both belong on her and her lovely husband, played with my fiancé and I am. I'm a former USPTA professional PTR professional as well and racket technician. I currently work for AmerisourceBergen and joined, luckily by some of the better tennis minds. And we do a lot of banter and a lot of fun when it comes to the world of tennis now.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 02:10
I'm Cole. I'm from Baltimore, Maryland, and I recently just moved to Arizona. I am in the hospitality space hospitality industry. I've worked in you know, as a as a banquet manager. And now I'm out here in a food and beverage role at a private a club, where there's tennis around, I shared with gotten my I got my start in this industry through tennis, sort of teaching kids, you know, the basics. And then I, I played in high school. And then even when I went to Virginia Tech, I met these two lovely gentlemen here. And Freddy was on the team there and he'll tell you all about that. But I started I got to be close with those guys on the team. And now we have a good friend who's on tour and I sort of I'm listed as his coach, even though I'm not necessarily, you know, teaching him forehands and backhands, but more so from like a
mindset and sort of being there and consulting getting through hard times and, you know, staying positive. That's sort of what I that's my involvement right now. And I'm also still involved in a men's Monday night league.
Laura 03:18
That's awesome. Yeah, we're going to talk a lot about mindset today, because it's so similar to what you need to be thinking about as an entrepreneur. So really good. Yeah, Friday.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 03:28
Yeah, like, like Cole said, the three of us met down in Hokie land at Virginia Tech. Yeah, played four years of college tennis down there. And then I'm the head men's and women's tennis coach at Georgetown University, in Washington, DC. And yeah, we kind of started up this podcast just as a way for kind of three tennis lovers to kind of banter and catch up and kind of keep in touch over. Like Cole said, I moved to DC and he’s up in the Philadelphia area. So it's kind of a way that weekly, we can all stay in touch and talk about the sport that we know and love.
Laura 04:03
So cool. All right. I'm going to get started by even just getting into mindset, like thinking about tennis mindset. I know, for me, that has been huge is getting back on the tennis court. So for those of you who maybe don't know, maybe you haven't heard me talk about it. I don't even know how much I've spoken about it. I was first singles in high school, and then played one year of college and got kind of burnt out. And honestly, a lot of probably why I backed out of tennis was I didn't know it at the time, because back then we, you know, mindset wasn't really being discussed amongst athletes. But I really think that that was a big reason why I left tennis for the period of time that I did. And then a little bout spring of last year, year and a half ago, after having my third child during COVID. I was like, if I'm going to keep my sanity, I think I need to leave the house. Oh, I used to be good at tennis. I'll play tennis again. And so I started playing and then I was like, oh, I actually used to be really good-game on. And that's what I say. But it was, I will tell you, it was so hard to get back into it having been really good. Knowing in my mind what I was capable of having had three babies built businesses, that was really hard coming back. And there were some pretty embarrassing moments where I was, you know, I'd get the email the next day after playing with a group and say, maybe you should practice a little more before coming back with us and things like that. It was really hard. And I'll tell you like one getting back into tennis, and playing now probably like 70%, back to where I was, after a year and a half. It is one of the toughest mindset challenges that I've ever had. It's been fascinating to see it. So let's talk about this idea of failing, failing when you're playing tennis. And I would imagine for especially because Cole and Freddie you're doing some coaching and mentoring, like how, how can we not make failing mean, that we should stop? Or how do we not make it mean that we're not good enough? Like, like, let's talk a little bit about
how that relates to being at the top of our game? Like, how do you explain that to people that you're working with?
Cole, Freddy & Keith 06:13
I can jump on this little bit here. I think failure is such an is I think it's talked about a lot of times and baseball and that kind of stuff you hear like, you know, if you hit if you've failed seven out of 10 times you go the Hall of Fame, not much really changes for tennis. There's a great stat out there that shows Roger Federer is most dominant year, and Cole probably has the stat right off the top of his head, I think was oh five, he won. He went like 95 and four. And that year, he only won 54 to 55% of the points he played. So that's a guy that lost four times and only one on a given point, he only won 55% of the points he played. And coming from a coaching standpoint, is something I used to talk about all the time with my students when I got a new student, or when I had one that was maybe with me for a while I used to the first question I would always ask them is what are you looking for out of this. And if they said, I want to be X, Y, and Z and had goals and want to do what I said, Well, you better be prepared to fail for a while, it's going to maybe sometimes get worse, before it gets better, you're going to have to get rid of old habits and try it. And it's just being comfortable and failing when it comes to tennis. Because you do it all the time. It happens nonstop. And it's a confidence thing. It's an energy thing. And what I mean by that it's a mental energy thing of where you're directing your mental energy, how you're directing it, if you're committed to a process, and if you're going to stick with it. And the best students and the best players stick to that mentality and fail with I like to call it grace, they fail with grace and then move on to the next step. And that's, that's, I think, the biggest mindset you can have when it comes to failing in tennis.
Laura 07:50
Cool, I want to hear what you what the rest of you have to say about this, too. And there's a lot of gold in there.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 07:55
Yeah, I think like you said, talking a lot about mindset here. And Keith just touched on, it's about kind of how you fail and how you learn to fail. I think in a sport like tennis, a lot of it can be very result oriented. And a lot of people don't look at the process of it. And especially for me just being a college coach and going through recruiting and all of that stuff, you're just finding so many people really just focus on the result. And then it leads to pulling your mental state down instead of trying to find a way to look at the process and how can you build yourself up even with the failures? And yeah, I mean, I think that's the biggest thing, like just kind of like what Keith said, it's like, how can you use that process to move forward even when it feels like you're taking two steps back? Because eventually those two steps back are going to lead to some greater leaps ahead.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 08:46
Yeah. Yeah. For me, really, Chief, just to sort of piggyback on what you were saying with the goals, I think it's really important for us to know in when I'm dealing with is that professional player, you know, really trying to identify what you want to achieve in your career. So what's your goal? Are you going to be top 200? Are you going to be 100? Are you trying to make that Australian Open? Because he's Australian? Are you what is the end goal for you? And then always keeping that light at the end of the tunnel and pushing even on those down weeks? That that's where you need to go that's where you're going to want to where you want to end up and the second side of that is, you know, how can you how can you surround yourself with good people that are going to get you there? It's hard because tennis is an individual sport you're out there battling and grinding and you don't nest you're traveling with countrymen men and women but you got to beat these people. So you can't be super close to them. But yeah, really, it's just you know, surround yourself with people that care about you. Identify the goal and just you know, it's going to be a grind, guys got to wrap your head around that and then find ways to enjoy it.
Laura 10:04
So good. It's so interesting, as I hear you speaking a lot like entrepreneurship, like it is an individual sport. And honestly, the better you get at it, the lonelier it is, because there's fewer people that are going to relate to you, if you have a seven figure business, especially as a woman, I mean, that's like, you're a fraction of a fraction of the percentage of women owned businesses. And so it gets even lonelier. It gets even harder as you continue to grow. And what I heard you say, Keith, anything is so important is that NorthStar, right is like, what is it that you're achieving? What is it that you're working towards, because if you don't have that vision, or like, you sort of lose that vision, or that vision starts getting foggy, it's really easy to be like, Oh, it's not that important. Oh, you know, I'm just not going to worry about that, or I'm not going to work through this team issue, I'm not going to work through this challenge, I'm not going to, I'm not going to do that anymore, because you actually forgot what it is that you're working towards, right.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 10:55
And I think what makes this kind of fun, especially from our vantage point, when it comes to the tennis world is you have three of us in completely different states of our tennis life, or coming from different backgrounds. Fred being one of the premier amateurs, probably to play in the country, you can make that argument, I'll make it all day long, Cole teaching a tour player and me coming from like the amateur ranks of tennis, there's different levels to failure. And there's different goals that have to be achieved. Just like when you're working with businesses, or you're helping people out with that there are different businesses, each business may have a different goal, you may have a business that's looking to break a million dollars for a month in hire, it's 100 employee, or you may have one that's starting up in their
basement, like there's different levels to failure. And just like for both of those parallels, it's how you manage it, and how you and what you're looking to strive towards.
Laura 11:46
And knowing that right, I think a lot of people get distracted by the social media feed on what other people are doing, instead of really doing that inside work of like what is what is my NorthStar? Like, what is my vision, and especially in our industry, it's very distracting you see somebody getting some award on stage, because they need some type of monetary, you know, accomplishment, but maybe you don't know what it took to get there. Maybe you don't want that for your life, you know, and I think those are things that we all get to decide.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 12:14
I mean, this is, this is a trivial aspect. When you brought the social media we, we all took, we all took videos of like ourselves playing recently. And there's a great photo of Cole, my buddy looks like a male model and Fred's like banging the heck out of the ball. And then Waso who you and I know both Laura, it's like, I'm going to sit there just going, oh, boy, I got to lose 20 pounds. This video doesn't look great. It's the truth, though. Because you start comparing and you start looking at it. And there's so many different levels to attack and succeed and fail. You have both of those. Yeah, both of those sides of the coin.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 12:45
Yeah. And even with the podcasts that we're trying to, you know, you know, make bigger and I'm sort of, you know, doing the Instagram and I compare, I get I get discouraged when I see you know that our numbers aren't growing as fast as I'd like them to be in terms of followers. But you, but it's really about that, like the North Star. I like that, that parallel but you've got to keep the course know that what you're planning on wanting is the right thing. And stick with it.
Laura 13:16
Yeah, and pay attention opportunities when they come up, right. So it was really interesting, because Keith called me to get my advice is like, how do I grow a podcast? And I was like, why don't you just be on mine? Like, that's one way is, you guessed on people's podcasts, you talked about your podcast, follow you over to your podcast. That's an organic strategy. You know, move to the next question. Sometimes it feels like, I don't know if you felt this way in tennis I have and tennis probably nowhere near the degree to which you have. And I've certainly felt this way in business where it's like, you're untouchable, you're at the top of the game, you look at your bank account, and you're like, wow, it's even better than I thought or, you know, like, it's going really well. And other times, I feel like, Have I ever even held a tennis racket before? Like, what I don't even know what just happened today? You know, what do you think sort of creates this? You know, how did you break through these plateaus that you get into, like, maybe you get to a certain place and you're like, I'm just going to hang here at
this level? Or, like, what does it take to get momentum from the peaks and the valleys to sort of that next level of growth?
Cole, Freddy & Keith 14:29
Yeah, I think the word I was going to use was momentum. Like, yeah, like tennis, there's so much momentum one way or the other. And I mean, from experience in my own game, but then also talking to other people who've been at the top of the game that the best players when you're sort of in that flow state, you're not thinking about anything. And people ask you like, you're asking us, how do you how do you do this? It's almost like there's no answer because you're not really thinking about much because you're in such a zone. But then if you maybe fall off a bit or have a bad week or two, then all of a sudden your mind starts thinking and then that's when it almost keeps you down. And it's being able to steer those thoughts in the right direction to then find your way back to that flow state. Because I think the more thoughts that are in your head, especially just in a sport, like tennis, where you are by yourself out there, and there's six voices in your head, and you don't have a coach at the bench with you, in between every changeover to point you in the right direction, like in most other sports, you can get coaching almost any minute of the game. And a tennis you don't have that. And so being able to find whatever works best for you in terms of being in that flow state and having as little to no thoughts as possible. It kind of tends to lead to more momentum in the right direction.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 15:52
Yeah, I mean, I, I think, like, you know, Fred talked about that. It's trying to get thoughts out your head, and he made the six voices, I think he was talking about me. And it's hard because I used to make the joke all the time. Roses are red, violets are blue, I'm schizophrenic. And so am I and it's, it's the truth. And I was very fortunate when I when I started learning how to play when I started learning how to coach, I went down to the Sanchez Costello Academy with Emiliano Sanchez, who's won a couple of grand slams, his sister won multiple, they have like 18 Grand Slams amongst the siblings. It's unbelievable. And he heard me playing. And if you ever hear me play, when I'm having a bad day, it's you don't want to hear some of the things I say to myself. I can't repeat on this podcast, it's awful. And he gave me the best tip of advice, because I couldn't get the voices out of my head. I couldn't stop myself from yelling at myself. And he said, Keith, whatever you are doing when you are yelling at yourself, or when you're storming around taking extra steps, it's wasted energy. Because every single thought, right now all of your energy needs to go to what is your strategy in this match, I was playing a guy who was better than I was. And he goes, What's your strategy, and I go, Well, he can't hit over a backhand right? Now. He just wants to chip and try to get around. And he just goes, that's your strategy. And after every single point, I went, Okay, that's my strategy. That's my strategy, no matter what I did is if I was trying to accomplish it, it helped out and luckily, I beat a guy in like a four hour long single match on clay, which for which was the longest I've ever been on the court. And it was great, because it was a huge thing. And I use that now, when I play with
people when I teach. And I think it kind of parallels to what Fred says is that you're trying to get the voices out. But really, your voices are going to if you're doing it right into everything is going in a direction. And it's if you're directing your energy to your goal, it's going to help you out on the court and everywhere else.
Laura 17:37
So good. I want to hear what you think about flow state, like how do you get into that flow state? Or when people fall out of it? Like, what is that? What does that mean? What did that look like?
Cole, Freddy & Keith 17:50
Or sometimes it's just, I mean, Fred, I want to hear yours. And so cool, I want to hear yours. But sometimes it's just one little moment. You just kind of hit one, he's kind of hit one ball and you go yep. Like, you know, and you're just like, that's what I'm doing. And that's what I've done my entire life. And that's what I've trained for. Whether you've played for a minute, like whether it's your first lesson, and you hit one, or whether you've been playing for 15 years, and like, you know, I keep piping up right here like Friday with Monica week before she won before she won Olympic gold like, like, whether you've played at that level, or at colonized level, I think it's just one little moment, they can kind of get you back into it, and then using it to stay positive.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 18:29
I think I kind of I haven't been competing or playing much since college. And this past week, I've kind of really ramped it back up. And it was like two days ago, I think I even texted these guys, I kind of found it again, a little bit. And I think it was, it's like, I just had one thought in my head. And there was I mean, to get pretty tennis specific, all I was thinking about was where I was contacting the ball. That was the only thing I was thinking about. And that was the only thing in my head, everything else just, I was moving seamlessly. I wasn't thinking about where to hit the ball, or really how to hit it or anything like that. But I was like, alright, as long as I'm contacting it here, I'm golden. And it almost just feels like I've got music going on in my head or something. I just, there's like nothing. It's just such empty space. And there's basically one positive process oriented thought, and then that's all that's in there.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 19:25
Is that the seventh voice in your head? The music or would that be one of the six that's going on up there?
Cole, Freddy & Keith 19:31 It's usually the Jackson Five.
Laura 19:39
Well play. Cole, mindset. I'm curious what you have to say.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 19:47
Okay, so if I'm on court, right, I can kind of feel that I'm going to have a good day based on how the day has went already. So if I wake up and I'm like lethargic, Again, it's dark and stormy outside sounds cold, I don't really want to go play this match. But if I get there, and I've had the greatest day, you know, I'm running into balls a little bit faster. And for me, I don't know, these, these two may agree, footwork has kind of been a pain in the butt for me, you know, timing shots and getting there. And, you know, getting back to the middle of court, getting to the next corner, I probably don't take the quickest and best route to the next ball. So if you're having a bad day, you're not necessarily going to be invested in you know, running as and getting after everything. But that also goes in tune with playing more. So I've young playing in this men's league now, and I never really have played tournament play or in sort of, you know, a league like this. So you get more comfortable behind the ball as well. So naturally, just practice and making more balls. But really, for me, it's the it's the energy, it's the energy and the footwork and making sure that you're up for it that day, or else you got to fight your demons.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 21:12
I just wanted to touch on two things that Cole said when I was laughing because we do a segment on the show called rap of off Dennis shop of off does like a funny, he did like a rap segment. And it was the worst that he did like a rap on stage. And he's released up and it's the worst thing of all time. So we pick songs that kind of like fit the theme of the week for tennis. And he said he'd had a bad day. And one of the songs was you had a bad day, a bad day by Daniel Pewter. So I was just laughing real hard at that. And that was a couple of weeks ago. But he said something. And I remember trying to teach them when I ran high performance juniors. He touched on like, you know, putting yourself out there on the women's men's league, and I don't care what level you're playing at. You put yourself out there, you're putting yourself out there. Yeah, it's incredibly challenging. Because it's, it's not tennis is not only an expression of your athleticism, it's an expression of, of like, you know, what your personality is, it comes out in your game, like what you'd be a grinder that goes back and forth, back and forth, will you be a big power hitter that wants to come in, it's an expression of a little bit of who you are, and personality wise. And a big thing we used to do all the time was drills that put that pressure on the kids, so they could feel when they were training. So they got more comfortable in that scenario. And that's such a big, that's such a big aspect. Like I remember we did a game one time, we had 20 kids, and we did one serve, you had one serve, if you missed it, you were out. And then he just kept going winning and losing winning and losing winning and losing until there was the final two people. And it just like you would never see these kids that were incredibly good, just like fail under the pressure. And I think that just wants you put yourself in
scenarios where you can fail, that really helps, because then allows you to then succeed going forward, you've been in that you've been in that moment.
Laura 22:47
This is such great advice. And I think particularly when you're playing singles, which is, you know, again, a lot like entrepreneurship. And let me tell you, for anybody who's listening and wants to be popular play 40 Plus singles. Real popular really fast. But you know, a couple of things that I see, you know, in business. The first is that flow state. And I think it's what people struggle with is that it doesn't come as fast as they want it to right. So for example, I do a lot of business consulting at this point, I could probably look at 10 pages of data and in 10 minutes be like this thing you need to do. But that came from years of repetition, right. And sometimes I train and certified consultants in some of my programming, and they want that to happen so fast, you know, and that flow state of like, yeah, no problem. Not even thinking about it. Like that's, that's the clear and obvious first step like that just comes from that repetition, right. And the other thing that I think it comes from is allowing that one simple focus. So you know, Cole, you talked about footwork, right, Freddy, you talked about contact point, like just having that one thing that you tell yourself, right, that's like that's what today is about? I think it overcomes whether or not it's dark outside or sunny outside, it depends on you know, it really, I think those types of just simple mantras that we have for ourselves in the thoughts we get to choose about the work ends up having so much of an impact on the outcome. And I find that a lot of people who are working through I think the learning stages of entrepreneurship really haven't quite gotten that down yet. Like they're still they don't realize how much they have agency over the outcome based on how they think about the work. And that's most of it. You know, a lot of people come to me and they want tactics, but what I really want to tell them is, it's usually not you know, it's usually how we're thinking about it.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 25:03
I love that. I mean, just to kind of cloth for a little bit was it? I played a lot of times with people where they heard I was a teaching pro when I was at the time or they heard I was a former one. And they go into the match and they come over to me for doubles match. They'd be like, what's our strategy for this match? What's our strategy? Like, Keith, you got to you got to have something cocked, like, you know, concoct it up, it's going to be brilliant. I'd be like, Make as many first serves as you can just make returns. And in the first live ball, we're going to hit down the middle of the court, and they'd be like, That's it. I'd be like, if you do that, I guarantee we're going to win this thing, and playing a match with some guy. And we like, you know, we're cruising and he's walking back to school. And this is effing genius. This is brilliant. This is the smartest thing and I didn't tell him anything that was outside the norm. But for years and years and years, he was doing something different. And yeah, like, you know, any got any guy in the middle of match he got out of the you got out of the middle of our strategy. And I want Randy, what's the strategy and he goes, Oh, first, first serves in returns in and first of all down the
middle, and then we like cruise through the rest of the match. And it was just like, sometimes it's something simple. Like you said, it's finding something simple when you're consulting, but they don't see it. And because they've been doing something so many other ways their entire life.
Laura 26:09
Yeah, it's like over the net. And in the green part. Yeah, yeah. That's the strategy.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 26:16
It's my, it's my favorite thing of all time, like, you know, Kate plays a three Oh, League, and I got yelled at for coaching, which I don't coach. And I'm like, What do you think I'm telling her to hit in the blue more often the other person does, like, what are we talking about?
Laura 26:29
You know, I'm going to go to our last question, before we wrap up this, this piece of mindset. And, you know, I will follow all of the grand slams, I'm sure you do, too, and talk about them. Iga Swiatek posted on social media saying, after she is number was ranked number one in the world when to the Australian Open last well before the finals, and said, post a great post. But then the last sentence was, it never gets easier. You just get better. I read that I was like, so good. How do you I know we've talked about this a little bit. But just to summarize your thoughts, how do you maintain that winning mindset? When you feel like you're not? You're just not winning? You're just to kind of losing or you're on a losing streak?
Cole, Freddy & Keith 27:20
Sure. So this question made me think of an interview I did with Louis Vosloo. He was an ATP coach since retired, but he coached Kevin Anderson, Kevin Anderson made two Grand Slam finals and made number five in the world. So he's, he's a South African. He's a great, great tennis player. And, you know, when I talked to Louis, about his coaching career, when he was coaching, Kevin, he talked about how Kevin had to qualify for almost 12 tournaments in a row. And I said, like, you're flying these places early, and what's your you got to win matches that you're not necessarily winning points off of early in those rounds. And what's the why, why. And he goes, you know, he just had to believe he was good enough. The Kevin play that Illinois, me was one of the one of the best better tennis players, I don't know, I obviously went to the tour. So you knew, you know, you have those past experiences of being the greatest at that level before you go tour. And then he just had something else in terms of his of his ability at his level was better than most having made number five. But it's just maintaining that belief, I think. And then obviously, surrounding yourself with good people, he found a good coach in Louis. And the two of them said, Hey, you may lose this week, but we're qualifying again next week, let's it this is the situation being real with yourself. And this is the situation we're in. And this is the way forward and he ended up qualifying 12 weeks in a row into 12 different
tournaments. And then on the end of that, I said, What was the most rewarding part of your time with him? And he said, there's a tournament in Monaco and Monte Carlo. It's called the Rolex masters. And I asked, I said, So what's the most rewarding moment that you and Kevin had, he said, we're sitting on this, you know, this balcony overlooking the Mediterranean. And Louis turned to Kevin and said, everything, everything, you'd be here, and Gavin said, Honestly, now, never thought I was going to be here. But all that hard work, it pays off and, you know, that sort of a, you know, a great story, and not necessarily, you know, everybody experiences. I mean, you have an immense talent. But really, it's just believing in yourself that you belong there. That's going to keep pushing you forward.
Laura 29:49
Yeah, I also wouldn't hearing his gratitude for the milestones. Like I think sometimes we get to a certain place and we're like, especially as entrepreneurs, we're on to the next thing. Instead of looking at and being like, wow, I actually never thought I'd even get here. Like, this is awesome. And just giving yourself credit for that.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 30:06
I'm sure I'm sure that number five and making two Grand Slam Finals was not his goal when he started playing tennis.
Laura 30:15
So instead of being like, why am I not number one being like, wow, this is like, just allowing yourself to have that moment. I think a lot of people probably in sports and in business don't just, they just don't allow that. Right. They don't allow it to be awesome in itself.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 30:33
When I when I hear that quote that you guys said about how it doesn't get easier. It makes me think of there was another quote, I heard from Carol Lawson, who's the Duke women's basketball coach. And it was circulating around Twitter a lot in the last couple months. But she said, you know, things don't get easier, we just handle hard better. And I think that's something that really sticks and I use a lot with my team here is like, just because you put in hard work doesn't mean that then things will become easier. It's like we are building up that tolerance so that we can handle hard, better be performed better in difficult situations, it's those situations aren't going to get easier. Just because we had a great two weeks of practice, it's like, those two weeks of practice are preparing us for that difficult situation, so we can handle it better than we would have two weeks ago.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 31:19
There's the old cliche that pressure makes diamonds, which pressure also makes rubble to like you, that's what one, that's one thing I used to tell a lot of my students to. And if it never gets
hard, like you know, it gets easier when you put yourself out there. But the pressure in those situations and what they deal with, it gets easier and what Fred was talking about, if you're willing to accept it, if you're willing to understand that it's coming in, you're wanting to face it head on. We're going to throw another quote out there, I guess which was, this made me think of Stan Wawrinka the tattoo he has on his arm, which is from by I hadn't looked it up, it's ever tried ever failed, no matter try again, fail again. And he got that tattooed on, I think right after he lost a quarterfinal against Djokovic in 2013, or 2014 was like an epic. And then he beat in the next year and won his first Grand Slam and when a couple after that, and it's if you're willing to put yourself out there as I'm glowing. If you're willing to put yourself out there, it's, it does get easier because you you're willing to accept that's going to happen. And that's what happened with that interview with Nicole was talking about what's cool with Louis, about Kevin Anderson, is that he was willing to put himself out there to fail. And that's where it's, it just gets easier to do it time and time again, and you kind of forget the failures over while.
Cole, Freddy & Keith 32:40
She cannot stop winning right now.
Laura 32:47
And she invested heavily in a mindset coach. And part of I was doing some research on it. I'm sure you all probably don't even more than I have. But I was just curious, where did she come from? How did she win so much so frequently. And what she started doing is learning to let go of the outcome. It's such a such a paradox, right? It's like you want to win, but then you let go of winning, and then all of a sudden, you're winning. And she did a lot of work on like, and I as a woman, I really relate to this, like not feeling like you're letting your family down or not letting like for me if I don't win in business, you know, I'm like, oh, man, you know, like, that's a, that's a big impact on my family, my kids, you know. And it's hard to let go of that of that sense of responsibility that we have when people have really invested in us and believe in us or showed up for us or given us money or resources or whatever. It's hard to forgive ourselves. I think if we don't perform to the level of expectation that maybe we have or they have, but what she did is it sounded like she really started doing some work on like, my family loves me anyways, you know, regardless of whether I win or lose and doing a lot of that inner work that funny enough is turns into winning. But you have to detach from it in order to get that result. Any other thoughts on mindset, I'm going to wrap up this segment, and then we'll move over to part two. But any other final thoughts or ideas that you want to share?
Cole, Freddy & Keith 34:22
I mean, I'm starting to feel like we should be hired as mindset coaches a little bit based on based on some based on some of this a little. The biggest thing on mindset, I think we kind of always talk about that, that Fred, in myself and Cole always talked about when it comes to tennis is if you're on the island, be accepting of the island. Know that you also have support
around you. And if you're going for your goal, like you're going to fail like that was a big thing that we always talk about is that you're going to fail and whether it's If you are, like I said this a beginner tennis player to the top amateur in the world of the top professional, you're going to fail in your own ways and you're going to succeed in your own ways. It's just being accepting and being happy to be along that journey is kind of the fun part. That's what makes tennis so much different than a lot of other sports in that regard.
Laura 35:19
So this is wrapping up, part one of this incredible podcast interview series. I hope that you got as much out of this, as I said, you would, if you're now thinking maybe you should take up tennis, you're probably right. And you're probably going to want to look that up in your local area. And if you're also just enjoying this conversation, because it's such a, it's such an interesting one that probably not very many people are having, make sure to tune into part two. And in the meantime, search up in Apple podcasts, no man's land tennis, make sure that you look at their podcasts, you subscribe, you let other tennis fans that are in your life know about it, and we'll see you in part two in just a little bit.
Laura 36:01
Make sure to visit our website, your next level leap.com where you can subscribe to the show and Apple podcasts stitcher or RSS, so you never miss a show. And while you're at it, if you found value in what you heard today, we would love a rating on Apple podcast. Or if you simply tell a friend about the show that would help us out too.
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