#99: Client Spotlight Series: Minna Khounlo-Sithep and Jacqueline Snyder, Owners of The Product Boss
On our entrepreneurial journey, we are all bound to have a business partner somewhere along the line.
I myself am currently partnering with Kelly Roach on our business, The Advance Network.
Business partners are great for bouncing ideas off, filling in gaps in your own talents and bringing new and exciting concepts to the table.
My guests today were my clients, and boss business partners, Minna Khounlo-Sithep and Jacqueline Snyder, Owners of The Product Boss.
Minna and Jacqueline shared:
The hurdles they face in their partnership and how they overcome them
How trial and error plays into the decisions they make
Why growing a business is more than adding zeros to the revenue
Tune in to hear how Jacqueline is determined to make Instagram reels work for them!
Check The Product Boss out here: https://www.theproductboss.com or on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/theproductboss.
Check out my free training on www.yournextmillion.me, where several of my seven figure clients and colleagues share what they're doing to scale their businesses to the multi-million dollar mark and beyond.
Listen to the Show:
Laura (00:02):
So many entrepreneurs, dream of living a life of massive impact by creating a mega successful company, but only a tiny percentage of businesses actually scale to that point. And when they do it is so often lacking the very joy and freedom that got them into entrepreneurship in the first place. So on this podcast, we speak authentically on what it actually takes to scale your business in a way that creates freedom and joy that works for you, your team, and the incredible impact that you are meant to make in the world as a visionary entrepreneur. My name is Laura Meyer and I'm your host. I'm a serial entrepreneur wife, mom, to three. And I love talking all things business, especially digging into what it actually takes to scale joyfully to the multi-million dollar mark and beyond let's get started.
(01:00):
Hey everybody, welcome back so this is part of our client spotlight series and I'm here with Jacqueline and Minna from the product boss we've been working together for almost about a year now, and you guys have had some pretty amazing growth in your business so far, haven't you?
Minna & Jacqueline (01:15):
Yeah. I mean the most growth ever, in the whole world, as you all get to know us, we like to laugh and talk business, but not exaggerating. We've grown a lot.
Laura (01:26):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when you really look back on your numbers from last year, cause we're recording this in the beginning of 2022, like, did that kind of shock you when you looked at how much your business had actually grown?
Minna & Jacqueline (01:37):
I think, you know, we were shocked in 2020 on our own because in 2020 we said our first like seventh bigger goal and I was like, January, yeah, we're going to hit a million dollars this year. And then March, we're never going to hit a million dollars this year. We're like, we'll let that goal go. It's fine. The world isn't shut down. Let let's just survive this pandemic. Right. That was sort of what we did. But we were all, you know, we, we ended up in 10 months hitting our goa in 2020, which we were away by. We're like, I don't know how I did it, but we just showed up literally every day and supported our community. And then we met you funny enough on clubhouse. Remember that?
(02:14):
The hours we would spend, which I will tell you some of the best connections I've made. And I mean, we were locked in our houses, so it really did its job in terms of like connection. But you know, it was sort of like we wanted to double our revenue from 2020 and we're like, we're talking millions, you know, we're not talking like let's go from, you know, a hundred thousand, 150 or a hundred thousand, 200,000 even like, like, can you even do it? And, and I think, and we did. And I think that when we met you, you made it, you kind of like stream lined and made it a bit easier for us. And like, and, and
we doubled down on the things that were working and then, and improved those. So then like it was, the revenue came from things we were already doing versus having to like add on and add on and add on. I agree.
(02:56):
I think that when we first hired you, we, we knew we wanted help with marketing, but I think that it ended up being something different than what we had intended. Like when we hired you on, I was thinking it would help us to market in a better way. And it kind of did in a roundabout way. I think the thing that you've helped with us with the most is, well, first we were already really great with message. I think that that's something that Jacque and I do really well because there's two of us, we bounce off of each other. We fill the gaps, we send out a message. That's really great. The thing with you that you did really well is you helped us figure out more about our customer. Like you named them, certain things, you talked about escape and arrival. Like we were really able to like attract the right people and at a higher ticket value and build out things against these people that were became more crystal clear. And I think that that wasn't something we intended in the first place, but ended up being like this special thing that developed from that, it was hard. Don't get me wrong. but it happened and it really helped.
Laura (03:57):
Yeah. You know, I mean, there's definitely moments for, I like leave our meetings and I'm like, oh God, did I push them too hard? I don’t know.
Minna & Jacqueline (04:04):
I mean, you're challenging us for sure. But you know, it's uncomfortable growing. So, you know, like I said, it was really beneficial, but since there's two of us too, it's like, it was a process, you know, I just winna add onto that really fast. Like what Nina said was like, you know, people think marketing, how can I get better on social media? And it's like, okay, hold, you know, hold up, hold on. And it's almost like, and we're a top marketing podcast or like top 10 marketing podcast so we know how to market. But the thing that I feel like we got from you almost was like, is it an MBA in marketing? Like, you know, it was more of refined. It was a refined marketing perspective. So it was like really doing work around customers and not like a general customer avatar that people teach. But rather like, this is your product, this is your course your program. And then saying, okay, who, who is this person? What is their struggle? So that escape and arrival, to be honest, which we worked on with you, I reference for all, all the things. And Minna is like stop doing reels, but I'm trying to get reels to work. Okay. Cause like the algorithm changed, but a couple of my reels cause reels have really, and if you're listening to this, not everybody has to do reels. Okay. It's fine.
Laura (05:10):
I actually really like your reels. I like every single one of them, I am a frequent commenter. I really appreciate them.
Minna & Jacqueline (05:18):
But reels took a dip. Like we had, we have a reel that went by and we had 15 million views, another one at like 2 million views, like when reels first came out and then this, you know, the last few, however many months like reels took a dip where it was like a, the struggle was real. We have 43,000 followers and we would get like a thousand views or like what are we doing with our lives? But then recently as we're in prelaunch to our, one of our signature course, our flagship program, , I'm going to go back to the escape and arrival and just pick tiny things with these trending reels and see if they work. And they did. And I know this isn't like a huge amount of numbers, but like from going to like a thousand views to 4,000, 7,000, one of them has 12,000. I was like, okay, all right, I'm getting the reels machine to work again. Cuz otherwise what's the point. So I just wanted to bring that up, but it was it's like it does help across the board in our messaging and also just little micro points on, you know, social.
(06:09):
Yeah. I think I use it in a different way. So I have not been doing reels everybody so calm down, it's okay if you don't want to do them, but the escape and arrival and the naming, our avatars, we have two avatars right now, but we've been hiring like crazy. It's been one of the hardest parts that we've had to do is hire very quickly because we've been growing very quickly and honestly we aren't hiring fast enough. But when we brought on, for example, a copywriter, a very expensive copywriter and you have to onboard them in order for them to sell. So she works on like our sales copy. So I've been using the escape and arrival and the names of our avatars to explain to her, these are the people we're selling to. And it's been like a shortcut, like I explained to her, this is their personality. These are their struggles. This is a thorn in the side. This is what keeps them up at night. You know, that sort of thing. And then it's helped her to write better copy and us to hire the right people that understand our voice and messaging. So that's another way is that I've been using it on, you know, outside of front facing social.
(07:10):
One thing feels a little more significant than the other. I'm just gonna say. One's front facing and one is hiring on the team.
Laura (07:17):
You know, everybody who's listening. Just go to the product boss Instagram and like all of Jacqueline's reels, please.
Minna & Jacqueline (07:30):
Like, you know, but part of the reason I lean in, because I work, I, I need to go through processes to understand, to teach. And so part of it is like what I, I tell test things and then I'm able to teach our students and say like, Hey, if you do two a day or you do this and like, if I can get the results from like a slow start, then can I get them the results too? So, but anyways, let's, let's move on from the reals conversation.
Laura (07:52):
And I mean, the truth is, is that you're good at a lot. You've done so much. Well you have incredibly strong team members who you do have in place. And I know when you were launching your highest ticket offer, which a lot of people who have an audience that is more at that entry level point, they kind of struggle with like, do I even have a high ticket offer in my ascension? Like, can I even add one on, would my audience be able to that? And that's been kind of a journey for you as well, right?
Minna & Jacqueline (08:22):
Yeah. I mean, yeah, you could call it that a journey. Before we were The Product Boss we started, and I don't know if you even know this Laura, but like I'm in fashion. I was a fashion consultant for, I don't know, 10 and a half years before I met Mina. And I would always speak on stages. And like I finally learned to sell something at the end and I called up Mina and I was like, we had never met before. And I was like, do you wanna come out to this trade show? I'm speaking at, do a panel. You're the Amazon expert. We talk about multiple streams of revenue for this point. We're talking to fashion designers and she's like, sure, why not? And then I was like, can she, we sell something at the end, cuz I had just been introduced the idea of a mastermind and she's like, sure, why not? This is why I love her so much. We're like sure, can it make money? Let's do it. You know? So we sold at the end of this panel, we, we, we had its whole print out and Minna designed the logo. And as multistream machine the mastermind, it was a three month mastermind. We sold it right then and there in the hallways of the California market center.
(09:36):
Legit like imagine old school in a, like a hotel room. But this was at a trade show conference, meet us out in the hallway. If you're interested. It was literally like that because the room was being taken over by some other speaker. We didn't have a business like we had, I don't even remember how we invoiced people, but we like got their email address, locked them in. But no, but like, you know, it was, we were selling it, but we weren't a business. We both had our own businesses, but we were like, let's try this together. And we got, I think it was like nine or 10 people together. We were incredible. I mean, one of them was like the costume designer for dancing for the stars. So incredible people. We did it. And we were like, this is the first time we worked together. So we started before we even called the product boss before we even had a podcast, we started masterminds and then we continued that. So that was our only revenue driver for the first two and a half years of our business.
(10:31):
That was only revenue driver, but we also ended up creating a podcast. So we had a, a funnel in at that point and then we ended up having revenue and that's how we drove people instead of the trade show in the hallway sort of technique. Right. And, and you know, we got a website, like we, we took that step. $30. We start on $30. That's how easy it is to start a service based business, everybody. Oh God. So yeah, so, you know, I think so where I'm trying to get to is like we ran our business off of masterminds and
small group masterminds. So like eight to 10 people, a few thousand dollars each 12 weeks eventually moved to six weeks. We were always afraid of a year. It was always very scary to sell a year. And then, you know, we came out with the course and we just did not understand how to scale our mastermind. And we, you didn't charge that much for a mastermind. I mean, you're in a mastermind, we're in a masterminds. Like there are tens of thousands of dollars at the levels that we're at. And we were like, okay, like it's hard to get product entrepreneurs to pay and understand a 12 month commitment and to pay anything cuz there's also not a lot to compare to.
(11:33):
So I think with working with you, we brought that as a struggle for us really like we have all these different mastermind groups, but they take out two hours a day on multiple days. And so all of our hours were kind of built into coaching, smaller groups. And you said, well, can we make this a bigger group? Like, can your mastermind idea and principal be built into like this bigger, scalable type product, obviously can't scale past a certain amount of people. And can we book 'em for a lot of money? Not a lot, actually we're still pretty low priced, but book 'em for, you know, money and then a year and we didn't believe it. And I'll tell you that was one of the first projects we worked on with you. And it was a struggle because there's two CEOs, different timelines. We both live in two different places. I live in New Jersey, Minna lives in Iowa, but we did it. We got 35 people the first round we just booked another 22. So we've like 56. And this is in the first 10 months of the program. Yeah.
Laura (12:26):
It's a huge win. Yeah. You also did a really nice job nurturing people from your record launch in the fall and segmenting them and identifying who in your audience could be an awesome fit for your mastermind. I think you did an incredible job at that.
Minna & Jacqueline (12:41):
Thanks. Yeah. I think that 2021 whatever year it was last year, 2021,we really, I think the thing with bringing, working with you and then working with had really like high dollar investments that we made as well, like into branding and things like that. We really wanted to position ourselves in a different way, you know? And I think that you really helped us with that, of our even positioning our offer in a different way and pulling out the people that could afford us and work with us and, and that we were more up leveled as well, you know? So it took a while to do that, but it's been worth it. And we we're seeing us impact these bigger businesses too, which has been incredible. So, but it was a process like we had to basically change everything, you know, change is hard and we had to change it into a bigger group.
(13:29):
We had to, you know, kind of, you had to chip away at our mindset of that a mastermind is more about people coming together versus a curriculum, for example, just a lot of different things that it took a process of chipping away at that, now we're get, we've tested it, we've chipped away at it. We're getting to a point where we're like, okay, now
we get it and now we're able to scale it more. And I think that that's really helped is just now that we're kind of like more into it the, the months now it's much more fun than being at the beginning of the change.
(14:06):
And just to like talk about that really fast, you know, the, I think it was like the belief that like, it couldn't necessarily happen. Like, and, and what's funny, Laura and your, I haven't told you this yet, but sometimes like, oh yeah, Laura was right. Like, oh, maybe we should have like actually not offered as much cause the value. And now that we've seen this come together, this, these like 56 people and also Mina and I are each paying $30,000 each to be in the same mastermind. So we have like a $60,000 investment somewhere else where like it is the 15th and we haven't been onboarded. There is no community.
(14:50):
Before we go into that mindset, I want, I think we had to do it a certain way because we have to tip our or dip a kind of like our, the toes of our community into it too. So we're kind of like gradually changing and moving things along. But I think the thing that helps, especially with us having two CEOs and I think that all of you, even as one solopreneur being in businesses that you might see too, is that because you're in it every day, it's hard to see.
(15:14):
All the blind spots or to feel differently than you have simply because you're in it. And that means even if you're two people, even though there's two people, myself and Jacqueline, we're vastly different, but we're still have our own thoughts because we're so in it. And it's hard to see outside of your business. It, if you're in it every day, you think certain things, you do certain things, you know, and it's like, whereas I'm saying like we've over delivered on this one. Like it's, it's definitely a very built out, not over delivered. It's a very good program at a very good price. And, but seeing sort of working with you and you have your experience and your toe and other people's businesses and like just it's the same way with us, how we can consult product people and coach product people. We see behind the scenes as so many businesses. And sometimes people get really stuck on, but this is the way. And I can't see it another way. So, you know, hindsight's 2020 and I'm looking back and I'm like, yeah, like this, this, the value is here and so much so that we're like, we get, have so much value even comparing to like what we're paying in other places.
(16:15):
And so it's really an interesting thing, but like Minna said, we can only get here by going through having gone through it because we've, we, we had, it looks different even when we start from when we started the offering of the mastermind is very different than when it began even 10 months ago or whatever, six months ago. And don't even know it's a blur here. It is. It's like beginning of the organ trail, whatever that was, you know? So it looks different cuz we, we had to test it, I think with our community and then it now it's
become a, a baby or a birthing of the mastermind between three people, you know, us and you know, our surrogate, Laura
Laura (16:59):
I mean, it's, it's really an honor to walk, to walk this path with you because I know when you're on the inside too, I think especially as women, it's so easy to underestimate what we built, what we're bringing to the table, who's in our audience. A lot of times people think that they don't have a certain type of customer in their audience and that certain customer just isn't signing up for some of your top of the funnel offers, but they're still like hanging around. They still love what you have to say. Right? And a lot of times when you have a large audience, that small segment that has a powerful, old buying ability in your company can be easily underestimated. And for you, for both of you, one of the things I love about working, I love working with you and for a lot of different reasons, but one of the primary reasons is how much you prioritize your home life, your being a mom, being a wife and just knowing how important that is to you and how important spaciousness and freedom and having space to be creative. I think for a lot of people who have a creative background, they crave that. And what have you kind of learned about yourself in the last year when it comes to how, how that fits into your business? I'm kind of curious how you're gonna answer this.
Minna & Jacqueline (18:18):
It's an evolving thing. I think, you know, I think that Jackie and I have put in so much into this business that now we get to reap the rewards. Yeah. So like looking back at it, you know, there's been times I've been burnt out before, so that's one thing and I've had partners before as well. So I know that if I don't reap the rewards or I don't feel like the things that I really want are prioritize, cuz at one point I dreamt of this, right. I dreamt to have actually, I didn't even dream. I didn't even dream this big of the product boss, but at one time I dreamt that I would have a business and we're talking about my other business little labels that I would be working with my husband at home on a business that was family owned. And you know, I think that, and just like, I always knew that that was my priority.
(19:08):
So it's really easy for me to go back to that of like, this is what I dreamt of and now I want to live that life as well. Now I have The Product Boss and it's opened up a whole set of different, you know, that's why I said it's evolved. You know, it's opened up a whole set of dreams and discovery and you know, like money and you know, thoughts and fulfillment that I never even and knew I wanted. So I think that I constantly go back to rediscovering what I want. And I think that I naturally do that. I've naturally done that my whole life. So building that in, especially like right now, my husband like bought me barre classes. It's like a Pilates, you know, yoga thing. And I did it and I was really sore. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is awful.
(20:00):
And I was like, but he bought me an eight pack and I was like, I'm gonna do it. You know, follow through here. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna, because some things I don't love right away, so I'm gonna do it. And then it just made me feel kind of good cuz I thought, you know, this is kind of the thing that I wanted this year too was, you know, I think of it as dating. Right. You know, you don't, sometimes you don't know you wanna be with that person forever, but it's different from dating because you're dating, not what you're doing. You're dating yourself. Yeah. Like that's the way I've been seeing is like, I'm rediscovering what I want. Now me as this person felt really, really good. So as sometimes people look at us and they think they've had it, they have it all balanced and they really are prioritizing the things that they want. But it's a constant conversation from myself and Jacqueline with me, by myself, with Jacqueline, by herself, with me, with my husband. And I think that that's, what's really helped is that knowing that we have to revisit it constantly, you know.
(20:59):
Right. It's not, it's not easy. That's for sure. People don't love change, that much. You know, for me and the thing, I think the thing that I was most attracted to Nina about when I met her because we met online, um, through like a podcaster and like a six figure CEO Facebook group. And what I liked about her is I had never been given the, there were no examples to me. I was in my, you know, maybe we were in our thirties and we met, but like I started as an entrepreneur in my twenties, my mother was a home stay-at-home mom, women were not prioritized in the family that I grew up in. And so, but my brain was always like, I'm gonna make enough money to make the choices I wanna make. And that's, that was my mission. And even meaning Minna, that was my mission. And we, at that point had our, our youngest were two and, and then now I had a business and I had two young kids and then I was starting a second business.
(21:50):
And I didn't understand when you're an entrepreneur and you don't have children, you could work all hours, but I didn't understand the whole like balance or juggling and being home for dinner and, and mom guilt and all the things that came with it. So she was very much someone that helped me through that. And, but as we've grown this business, because we both still have our other businesses and this business has like skyrocketed. That's like where we, what Minna has also reminded me of. She's like the reason we make this money is to have the freedom, like what lives you wanna live, because it's really hard when you're a hustler to get outta hustle mode. And my hustling came from surviving. Like my came from like my only path to freedom is that I hustle and um, that's kind of, you know, where I was operating from.
(22:36):
So now it's this idea of like, we talked about this this morning on our podcast, but like buying back your time. And so we work this hard for what reason? And you know, we're two different people. I travel a lot because of like the way that my husband, my family lives on the other coast. Like we're two different people and we have to always
coordinate our relationship, how we work our different time zones, our own children, our own commitments to our kids. But it's, it's getting easier. I think last year was hard because we're also in a pandemic, hold up with our children, you know, homeschooling, we homeschooled, we got them back out. And so it was just a weird time to grow so fast, but also be your children were home with you. And so the fact that, and it, it didn't feel as balanced with our kids being home because it's like they were physically there and they're like, they knew we were working all day instead of being at school and then we got to be with them after school. So I think now that they're back in school and there's a little bit more balance, we are finding more balance and then we're finding the space that she said to reflect on ourselves and now saying, what do, who are we and what do we wanna do with this? Like these opportunities we've created for ourselves as well. So it's kind of getting that freedom back again and then almost a reinvention of self and parenting and spouse and all the other stuff. Yeah.
Laura (23:45):
Yeah. It's not just about adding like more zeros to the revenue. I think one of the things that I hope that I help you with and I continue to help you with is making the choices that are going to create that outcome. And I think as you've mentioned before, and I think everybody who's listening has probably fallen this trap of your condition to grow it, grow your business a certain way, because it's gotten you to where you are, right. Is that when you are in the scaling to seven figure stage in a lot of ways, that is just throwing a bunch of things at the wall, seeing what sticks and there's a certain brut force that's required. Yeah. I think to get there because you just have to kind of like slog through the proof of concept stage or the market validation stage for what it is that you're offering.
(24:35):
And we're still thinking about what's missing in your ascension offer and your customer journey and like what pieces could really help your audience get better results faster. I mean, that's, that's what we talked about this morning. Right. But then also doing it in a way that honors the life you wanna live. And I think that's, what's kind of interesting, particularly about working with women is that they have to have, they tend to have like a higher level of consciousness when it comes to what it is, like creating a business that they're excited to show up for. And it's super easy. In fact, I would say, I would argue that it's more common than not to at the multi seven figure mark create a business that you're not super excited to show up for because there's so much more opportunity than you have time for first of all. And there's so many more people who need your guidance and feedback and leadership, that it's kind of like being intentional to not get caught in the wave of overworking.
Minna & Jacqueline (25:35):
Yeah. And allowing, I think certain people, I think the further we get with myself and Jacqueline, the more people we get into our ecosystem. And I think that that's been really a hard to navigate of us only attracting people that we want in our ecosystem. And I think that's what you've helped us with too, is just, you know, like I said, you've helped us a lot with attracting the, knowing our customer more in everything we even before this call, right. We're talking about tennis and I actually love tennis. I grew up playing
tennis, not grew up. I was in tennis in high school. And I remember this has always stuck with me when I was teaching my daughter how to play tennis. I remembered something my coach told me and they said, uh, she said, you know, it is a game of, of finesse and not strength.
(26:23):
You don't have to be the strongest person. You don't have to brute force your way through it. You have to, to have Finesse. And I think that, that's the thing that you really help us with is just, we're kind of like at the point now we're kind of, finessing our way through, you know, we're past the hustle we're past the brute force. And that's what I've really liked is that now, like this is something Jacqueline has taught me for sure. And I think we teach it back and forth to each other is that we vocalize what we want and we ask for it and we have a conversation around it, you know? And it has been hard as women as living in separate places as growing a company so big hiring people in this company, everything, all the things. And so I think that that's been really helpful is just understanding that it's just, finessing what you want, you know?
Laura (27:10):
Yeah. I love that analogy. So anybody who listens knows I play tennis too, and it's so true because it's where you place the ball is so much more important than how hard you hit it. Yeah. Particularly as you get into the higher levels, because most people can hit that hard ball back. Right. But if you put it in the exact right spot, then it doesn't take quite as much energy out of you and it's much more likely to be your winner. So I love that analogy. It's awesome.
Minna & Jacqueline (27:39):
But it's, it is. I mean, it's so true. The fines definitely we're at it's that delicate touch to it on like how to make it perform better. So I'm excited to see what happens this year in terms of like knowing the products that we have that are great and it's that finesse around it and bringing in the right people.
Laura (27:55):
It was funny cuz we were running the numbers this morning on some, you know, just kind of hypothesizing what was possible. And I think something that felt very impossible, all of a sudden was like, oh, like that's totally doable if we just do these particular things that are probably our biggest opportunity and most likely to get us to where we need to be with the most leverage, I wanna leave the listeners with knowing, I think how I know how awesome you are. I don't want them to know how awesome you are. What are some of the, that with or without my help. You think you did really well this year. I wanna celebrate that before we head out and I can brag on you too.
(28:36):
I think you've done an incredible job with paid traffic in a year that people have, Jacqueline's a lot of your genius in a year that people were complaining about, you know, not, not getting paid traffic to do what they wanna do and they're giving up on it.
And they're blaming the algorithm all year long where I'm like that happened in March. Like we're in September, it's probably time to move on. You got the messaging, right? You used a lot of our messaging exercise and then layered on this incredible front end strategy to your launch, which was a workshop series that we, we brainstormed together and you really ran with. And then you had a record launch and you had liquidating SLOs. I mean, you did so much well with paid traffic in that like one statement that like has so many layers, it has design layers. It has copy layers. I remember one time I took a screenshot and I sent it to you. I'm like, did this ad go out on purpose? And it was they're like, don't even show it to me. And she hates it. It's so bad, but it was actually like one of your first. You were shooting for ugly and at work. But like you tested so many creatives, and you were just willing to stick that out. And I think you were greatly rewarded for it. Thank you.
Minna & Jacqueline (29:53):
And, we say don't show Minna because she has a graphic design background and listen, I, if anyone's like, why are my ads not working it's bonkers. Like we have beautiful graphics. We've paid a lot of money for like a creative director and all this stuff. Those do not perform. But the like, I don't even know how to explain them, but the kind of like clunky, they feel clunky and janky those work really well. So we got to keep going. Don't judge us if you see our ads, but they work. Yeah, the photos, everything just don't look at the ads, go to Instagram or something.
(30:28):
But even our Instagram we've gotten more like normal and natural with. Yeah. I think, I think the refining that the, I think for us, what we did really well is like we did, like we, I think in our, over the summer of last year leading into our, our, our biggest launch, it kind of like clicked all of a sudden where, where we hired this copywriter. Who's a very expensive copywriter, but then all of a sudden, because we could, we had the opportunity, we made built a business that could afford this. It created such clarity. And I think last year we found a lot of clarity like, oh, this is who we're talking to. These are their pain points cuz before we spoke to it, but it was kind of, we're great at talking. We could talk all the time, I think talk so it's like we could talk to it, but we don't know what we're talking about specifically.
(31:08):
But now that we very clear on what their fears are, what their needs are, what their objections are. And again, you did help us with this, but we got really clear that it was so easy to sell into our workshops, into our challenge, refine like the, the, webinars, you know, get people into the mastermind. Like it just started to make more sense. And I think that felt like at one point it was kind of like blind luck and then all of a sudden it was like, oh, okay, no, no, it's all finally coming together. And then we can like define the recipe instead of sort of like by, you know, like just our natural abilities.
(31:46):
I think last year was really difficult. So 2020 though, that was when the pandemic hit, it was really easy. All Jacqueline and I had to do was show up. We had to do video, which is not my favorite, but at the same time it was just showing up on video. We literally just bonded with our community. We felt hard because it was a pandemic, but easy cuz all we had to do was show up and you know, I just did as many videos as I could possibly do in existence and 2021 was so hard. I think that there was so many changes. I think the thing that we did really well was that we understood that we are still in the change. So we changed the entire mastermind. We changed the entire directory that we had personally. We had a lot of things happening.
(32:36):
Our masterminds were really struggling because they're waiting for the pandemic to be over and it wasn't, and it was really hard for them to be in that constant uncertainty and change. Just, it felt all very hard. And I think that, I don't know if I can pinpoint something that we did really well. We hired the copywriter, for example, we honed in on the messaging, but the emails didn't end up working out as well as we thought so now we'll improve on that. So I think that that's one thing that we really are good at is that we just change as often as we need to. And we kind of, you know, like we're okay with the fact that we have to fail a little bit to get to where we want. Now not a lot of things have failed on the product boss.
(33:16):
I will tell you that like everything, we, you know, one of the people that we work with, she said that everything we touched turns to gold, we're really lucky in that, in that we've been really successful at a lot of things, but it's because we've, you know, put a lot of energy into things and change it quickly when we need to it's like, we're it, 2021 was constant triage. So it was very, very hard but I think that we were really good at that. We came together as a team, even though it felt like sometimes our wheels were falling off and we changed very quickly, whatever we needed to do. And we stayed really unified in all of it. And I think that that's a big struggle for a lot of people is staying unified through some, through like through like a traumatic year, you know? Yeah. And so I think that I'm really grateful and really proud of us that we came out of 2021. We grew out of it. I mean exponentially, honestly, like it was crazy growth and it was actually really hard. Knocked on wood while you were saying things, certain things like into gold, I'm like, okay, knock out, knock on wood.
Laura (34:24):
Yeah. I mean you have an amazing offer for a very clear person who needs your help. I mean that's such an important part of the game of business. And I just think both of you, if I were to summarize what I just heard, it was, you kept showing up, you know, you kept showing up, even though it was hard, you kept showing up. Even though there was moments where, you know, serving a large audience in 2021 was not easy for anybody, anybody, there's a lot of pain in the world. There's a lot of people who are showing up, in a way that, you know, can feel disrespectful because of what they're experiencing in
their home, in their lives. And you just kept showing, you know, and kept elevating. What I saw you doing is you kept leveling up. Like you didn't just show up, you kept leveling up.
(35:08):
You were like, okay, that's fine. Like that isn't working the way that we thought, but what is working, let's take the pieces that are working, carry it forward, leave behind the pieces that aren't working, which is really, really difficult when you have emotional and financial investments in some of the things that might not be working as well as you were hoping. Right. But you kept just loving yourself up and I think you do that for each other. And then I think you're natural at that and I think that'll serve you going into the next year. So
Minna & Jacqueline (35:38):
Yeah, go ahead. I was gonna add just really fast. I think another thing like, and I'm a housewife fan, so I like to watch Housewives fight each other, like the next one, but I will say that there's not a lot of modeling of women supporting women sometimes or women partnerships that you know, where, where you see like things can get it hard. And, and they're not always pretty in the way when I say pretty like in the way, like it's not always Smith sailing like a marriage, it's not always smooth sailing, but, and, and life happens, right. We all have personal things that both me and I had like pretty personal things that we didn't talk about publicly last year happen. Um, but that we understood that we were in this marriage, ultimately life partnership together and that we each had to go through our own thing and that we would, like she said earlier, like we would bring it to each other and allow that space for the person to work through it.
(36:26):
And I just hope that like, we can model that for people, whether it's like in a friendship, whether it's colleagues like with you, you know, it's the idea of like the cattiness or the meanness or the like women don't get along. They have to be besties all the time or, you know, just like what we've seen out there as women in business, that it can be real and raw and messy and beautiful and growth and examples for others. And so that's something I think we went through because we had a lot of personal stuff happening and such tremendous growth in our business and our other businesses. And it was like, we had to go through that too, to then be able to handle whatever's coming next, you know? Yeah. And know how to reward ourselves. This is something we're learning. Um, too, we actually are going to Costa Rica for like a very expensive mastermind. And Jacqueline was saying we actually get separate rooms and everything like that. And Jacqueline and I have always shared rooms for the most part. And just this past year and or a couple years, we've been getting separate rooms. Right. And I thought in my head about that the other day, and I was like, I bet you anything that there's no male partnerships that share a room, they just boss up and pay for two rooms. You know what I mean? And here we are thinking we need to be besties, you know, doing pillow fights or something and talking, which we have never done. Yeah. Which we've never done, but you know what I mean? Like, because like we see like these people on social media that they're best friend partners and they, you know, they are share rooms all the
time. And then, you know, that's not actually how real high level businesses work, like real CEOs. And I just, I felt proud of us, I guess I was like, yeah, of course we have the money to do it. Of course we're gonna have separate rooms. You know, we're still together to like midnight one o'clock talking. Yeah. Yeah. And then, and then, and then Nina was like, can you walk me to my room? So like, we really should technically sleep together, but you know
(38:19):
Yeah. You know, I just think that one thing we've been learning too is that now that we're at a higher level is we've never been here before. We don't know how to act in a certain way. Um, and we don't know how to model for other people and it takes us a minute to be like, even be like, hey, we should have separate rooms. Like, duh. You know, I don’t know. I just felt like, really proud of the fact that we were like, okay, of course we're gonna have separate rooms. We've always thought we needed to share a room. It's so practical. Like mom sense. Let's all share a room, we're doing a vacation, you know, blah, blah, blah. So I don't know. It's just like growing into all of it has been really exciting.
Laura (39:07):
Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, I've, I've been privileged enough to be close to, you know, your dynamic and probably haven't been part of all the conversations, aware of everything, but I think you both make each other better in so many really cool ways. And, I think for everybody listening, as we wrap up, just thinking about like growing from seven to multi seven or multi seven to multi multi seven, it's just not about the tactics. Like some of it's about tactics. A lot of it is strategy. A lot of what we talk about when we're together in making sure that what you're doing is like the highest, best use of you and your resources and that it's leveraged as possible. And it gives you as much spaciousness as possible. But it's also about who you get to become on, on the journey. I think a lot of people, I think it's good to hear. It's good for them to hear. So thank you for sharing that. Thank you for sharing the insight of the growth of your company and, and just having fun together. I really appreciate it. And I just appreciate you being here.
(40:13):
Hey there: before you head out, I want to let you know about a free new training I have right on a brand new website called yournextmillion.me. It's yournextmillion.me, where several of my seven figure clients and colleagues share what they're doing in the next year to scale their businesses, to the multi-million dollar mark and beyond. And I have to tell you, it is not what you think. So check it out at yournextmillion.me. And if you loved this show, will you subscribe to it and share it with a friend or just say something nice about it to someone, you know? I’d really appreciate it so much. Thanks so much for being here and I'll see you next time.
The Scale with Joy podcast dives into the mindset and strategies of scaling your company to the million dollar mark and beyond. Each week, we follow the journeys of innovators, disruptors, experts and leaders - sharing behind the scenes stories of their most challenging moments and greatest lessons learned-all while building their multi-million dollar empires.