#30: How to Scale Intentionally with Shay Cochrane, Founder of SC Stockshop & Social Squares
Do you often have days when you feel that there's so much to do in so little time?
If yes, then listening to my interview with Shay Cochrane of SC Stockshop and Social Squares will change your life!
In our interview, she shares how:
The whole point of being a business owner is to be able to dictate your working hours and take vacations anytime you want.
She believes that you only actually need to do 20% of the tasks on your to-do list!
It’s important to be humble and hold yourself accountable.
Today, she shares how you'll be able to do all these (and more) while growing your business at the same time!
Learn more about Social Squares image membership at www.socialsquares.com or follow Shay on Instagram @shaycochrane.
Listen to the Show:
Laura (00:00):
This is the Scale with joy podcast, episode 30: scaling intentionally with Shay Cochrane.
(00:10):
Welcome to the Scale with Joy show, a podcast about scaling your company while living your most purposeful life, because here's the thing: there are no rules to say you can't grow a massively profitable empire and have joy in the everyday. My name is Laura Meyer and let's get started.
(00:34):
If you know anything about today's guest, Shay Cochrane, you know, that she's an incredibly talented photographer. She has an online shop called the SC Stockshop, where you have endless access to beautiful stock for a low price per month of which I am a happy member and customer. And recently I received an email from Shay and the subject was the truth about getting to it all, the truth about having it all the truth about actually growing a business and how she felt like she missed out on the first year of her daughter's life while trying to build a company. And while she was home, she wasn't fully present and she feels like she would never get that time back and really speaks openly. And honestly about the lessons that she learned during that season and what she does today, to make sure that her business never bleeds over into her life and that our life never overlaps into her. Business.
(01:29):
And when you hear about the level of discipline and the strategies and the systems that she uses to put this into place, it's going to motivate you. I know it did for me. I know what it's like to be exhausted and resentful and fearful, and having all of these emotions happening while you're trying to grow a business and be a mom. And this starting point, which occurred 10 years ago, has been a long time coming for Shay, where she is walking away from exhaustion and the loss of priorities and working more than you want to when you are scaling a business. And what is so impressive is how little she actually works; how much she gets done and how much her company has grown while all of that is happening. It's incredible. And what she has learned, I know will bless you. It will help you. It will inspire you on yes, you can do it all, not all at once and not while we're distracted by all the things within the same timeframe. So she's going to. get down to it. She's going to let you know exactly how she does this coming up next with Shay Cochrane.
(02:35):
Hey everybody. And welcome back to the Scale with Joy show. So here. I’m here with Shay Cochrane, she is going to be sharing with you all of her great tips on life and business. And some of her hard lessons learned over many years of entrepreneurship. Thank you so much Shay for being here.
Shay (02:52):
Oh my gosh. Thanks for me being a part of such an awesome team. The people that you've had on these interviews have just been fantastic. So I'm excited.
Laura (02:59):
Yeah. Yeah. And they've been so generous in sharing. So if you guys have been with us so far, you know, that I was like, oh my gosh, I'm on your email list. Cause I am a really big fan customer. And I just saw that you had this great interview series about life and would you be willing to come on the show and talk about it? And she was like, actually, yeah, I would. So it worked out really well. One of the things that you mentioned in the interview series is that you feel like you have a lot of guilt and struggle that you missed out on the first year of your daughter's life because you were so consumed by your business. Would you mind just sharing a little bit about that with our listeners?
Shay (03:37):
Yeah, absolutely. So that was definitely catalyst for needing to establish regular boundaries, boundary lines between work life and home life. And I think for me at that season of life, I was a first-time mom, it was my very first daughter, I had run a wedding photography and portrait photography business for quite a few years before that. And so when I had my first child, I thought that nothing about the way that I ran my business needed to change. I would just have a little tiny human there beside me. Before Instagram, I mean, this is before any, so many of the pressures that the modern-day entrepreneur creative entrepreneur feels now, then it was just really doing the work, corresponding with my clients editing, just very basic. There was no, we weren't Facebook advertising and posting on Instagram at that point. So I realized in that first year, that was for a variety of reasons, a complete blur. And I do go into that in that blog post.
(04:43):
But I realized then that I did not want life to look like this. And I think the determining factor for me was that I realized that what was happening in those moments when I was pulled between being a business owner and being a mom, is that I was resenting being a mom and not resenting my clients that were pulling me away from being a mom. And that was a hard realization because I obviously love my daughter. We really wanted to become parents, but any new mom knows that the day to day, work of being a new mom is not very glamorous and often goes unseen and un-thanked, unappreciated. And so the work I was doing for clients made me feel very capable and important and valuable in society. And so I saw right away that those things warring on my heart turned me against what I wanted my heart to be for, which was being a mom.
(05:44):
So that first year of her life was really kind of the catalyst for me, realizing that for me, I needed to draw very distinct lines and have very, very distinct boundaries set up so that I could invest fully, mentally in my work when it was time to do that. And I can invest fully, mentally and emotionally in being a mom when it was time to do that, obviously we don't clock in and out of motherhood. So we know it's a little messier than that, but I needed to compartmentalize. Just very practically for my heart, for my mind, and to make sure that I was pursuing with my calendar and with my energy, the things that I knew really did matter to me, being a mom really didn't matter to me more than my work, but so that was kind of the difficulty of that year. That was the personal realization of that time period. And I just saw where my heart wanted to go, which was all in on work, resenting motherhood. And I knew that I had to do something to kind of reign that in and to start to direct my heart in the direction that I wanted it to go. And then direct my business in a way that it would fall in line with those priorities.
Laura (06:57):
So for the mom, who's sitting there right now, listening to us and she's like, but Shay, like I have this business and I have these things and everybody needs stuff from me. And like, I think what you shared is so powerful because there's so much authenticity in it, but it's also very practical because when you get a great email from a client, you're like, oh my gosh, this is great. I'm awesome. But like, nobody's sending you an email because you got up in the middle of the night to breastfeed. That's really understandable. But what would you say to that mom, who's feeling that pull or feeling that guilt or feeling, and it's not possible for her?
Shay (07:35):
Yeah. So I think that sometimes we assume that creating boundaries and saying no is going to result in a less profitable business, right. We're trying to build profitable businesses for good reasons to be home with our kids, to be home with our spouse, to be able to take a vacation and not bring work on it, to get out of a nine to five job. So we have all of these really noble reasons that we get into business. So I think sometimes we start to assume that the choice then is going to be build a profitable, successful business, or don't build a profitable, just have a mediocre business that maybe brings in a little bit of revenue. And you know, those of us that are like a little overly driven are like, we don't want that. And I think what I have learned and what I was privy to early on was that you can work smarter so that your business is very profitable in a very short period of time. So the reality is for the mom who is sitting there trying to do it all and is just tired. What I'm not saying is, you know, you really need to prioritize being a mom more and give up this idea.
(08:44):
What I'm saying is if you are a business owner, then you just, you can have the grit to make certain decisions that will allow your time to be used in the absolute best way possible that will result in profitability and growth of the company. So the reality is that so many of the things that you and I are doing do not add to our bottom line. They are things that we have been told we need to do. You need to be on Instagram. You need to be on Facebook. You need to be on Pinterest. You need to be recording podcasts. You need to be blogging. You need, I mean, the list just goes on and on and is exhausting. So I think a lot of business owners or want to be business owners get into building a business and they think I have to be everywhere. This is when I need to build momentum. This is what I need to sacrifice everything so that it will grow later. And so what they're doing is they're spreading their energy and time and resources across so many different, great things for business owners to do.
(09:50):
And there's a pretty commonly known business principle referred to as the 80/20 principle where 20% of your activity or 20% of your product or service is probably, most likely, statistically bringing in 80% of your revenue. And so somehow I came across that information really early on. My husband and I are both business owners. So we kind of like nerd out and live in a 24-hour mastermind. So it was probably one of those conversations and coming to that realization that, wow. So you're telling me that only 20% of the things that I'm actually doing are leading to 80% of the revenue. Well, what if I just do those 20% of the things with my very limited time?
(10:35):
There's a great book that I read a while ago called the Pumpkin Plan. Okay. I don't know how well known it is, but that book illustrates that concept perfectly where you can invest all of your time, energy, and resources into those things that are the moneymakers for you or are the things that are actually pushing the business forward. Whether that's a one specific product in your product line, one specific service in your service offering, or a set of activities that you do that really actually affects the growth of the business. And the argument would be that the more you can pump all of your time, energy resources, effort into those very small things is when you actually see exponential growth.
(11:16):
So while I do think one element of getting to where I'm at now has to do with growing slow and saying no and being willing to walk away from good opportunities for the sake of maintaining priorities, I actually think that it was narrowing in so tight. So early on, that is what actually led to exponential success and still serves me well to this day, because all my time, effort, energy in my 16 hours a week that I'm working are focused on the, the most important thing. So there's so much that I don't do. There's so much that I outsource so that I hire for, but early on when it was just me, there was just a lot that I didn't do. But the things that I did are really the things that the ball down the court. So that's where I think it's very practical and actually pretty strategic. It's not just like, we're all setting aside our aspirations for the sake of our priorities, it's that we're being smarter with how we're actually using our time.
Laura (12:16):
It's so, so valuable. What would you say to somebody who's like, you know, I just can't, I can't get rid of anything? There's nothing I could get rid of. I just don't see it. Like, how did you end up prioritizing?
Shay (12:31):
Yeah. I think you need; the numbers are going to be one of the most important things to help you make those decisions. So for, especially for the early business owner who maybe is not, has been a little lenient with actually checking in with the numbers, or maybe does it have the analytics available to them or just hasn't looked at them. I think numbers can be very telling. So if you're not very numbers oriented, maybe have a friend or your spouse might be numbers oriented and you can really drill down if you have a product line and look at exactly which products, not which ones you think, not which ones that people say they like on Instagram, or get the most double taps or that people said that they wanted, but what are people actually buying?
(13:15):
And I think you will find that even within our product line, there's 20% of our product line that brings in 80% of the revenue based on just color preferences. So this applies all across the board. So I would just say, don't go off of what you think and feel go off of the numbers whenever possible. And I think that that should probably always be possible. Now, I know that there's things that we do as business owners that we don't see. We don't exactly know how much of a role they play. So that might maybe that's Pinterest or maybe that's Instagram, or maybe that's Facebook. And so what I would say is don't be afraid to be experimental with cutting something out and seeing if it makes a difference, if it does make a difference to your bottom line, not to how you feel about your business or not to what the perceived momentum that you think you have or don't have, but does it actually affect your bottom line?
(14:12):
And then you'll, you'll have more data to actually make an educated guess off of, because I think we would all say when presented with that idea, we would all say, but everything I do matters. And the second thing I would say to that is that not everything matters for you to do. And that's where we get into, like, when do you start to build a team and that kind of thing, but, you know, for all intents and purposes for the bulk of the years that I've run this business, I had one other employee and it was like the things that I did well, I was doing the things that nobody else could do. And then she was kind of doing everything else. And so that wasn't like a high expense to the company, but it was a huge value both to the company and to me so that I could maintain my very small amount of hours that I felt like I could work.
(15:00):
So maybe those are some starting points. Definitely, definitely start with the numbers, start with the numbers, start with the numbers. And just, I've learned so much about, yeah, you can't go off of what you think is happening or even what it looks like is happening. You really have to go off the numbers.
Laura (15:20):
Yep. So just to inspire people, what are some of the things that you do in your business that give you the most return for your time?
Shay (15:27):
Yeah, so the best use of my time is for sure planning shoots and shooting, creating imagery. So I split my time. I, so my 16 hours a week are split into two and a half days. One of those days every week is supposed to be spent shooting. So I've basically right there said at least half of my time needs to be in creating, literally creating imagery. The other half of my time is split between planning for shoots. So art directing, like planning for myself, what am I going to shoot, planning with my team? What am I going to shoot? And then another small part of that split of time would be some general like team leadership. At this point. It's a lot of team leadership because now I do have five people on my team and they're all fairly new to my company.
(16:22):
So the best investment of my time right now is making sure that they share the vision, understand and represent the core values. That we're all kind of like creating really good systems of communication and things like that. So right now that's the best use of my time, but I would like to be able to remove myself even from that. So I think when it comes down to it, it's like what I can offer as sort of an educator. I don't really consider myself an educator, but like beginning to have conversations like this, even though that's not a normal part of my work, feel like a massive way that I can contribute to the creative and entrepreneurial community. So that's important to me, but as it relates to the business shooting images is like the number one thing, but I don't even have to shoot all the images.
(17:06):
So now I've learned that like, I can't create all different types of wonderful images. I can create certain images as well. So I need to bring in other people that can create other beautiful imagery. So part of that is selecting those people and making sure that it fits the vision. So my work and my sort of best offering is it has evolved over time. But I think beyond being the visionary and business owner, like wearing the CEO pants, it would be shooting for sure that it's like the best use of my time. \.
Laura (17:37):
Yeah. It's that creative direction work in that visionary work. And I think for what you're doing right now, which is really just generosity, it does, from my perspective, it's sometimes shows back up in the creativity. Then we end up like being inspired creatively as well, just because everybody's struggles with it. Can you speak to phone addiction, email? So 16 hours a week is not a ton of time. How have you either struggled with or overcome that addiction?
Shay (18:10):
So you're right. I'm so glad that you brought that up because it is something that I think we're, we're starting to joke about more publicly, but we're not quite like dealing with it yet. You know, we'll all kind of admit to I'm on my phone too much, but we're not quite at the phase where we've seen the fallout enough that we're starting to try to problem solve. So hopefully we get there and conversations like this can help us get there. I think what that looks like in my life is when I'm working, I am almost entirely off my phone. Yes. So I, now I will say I don't run my two professional social media accounts.
(18:52):
So social media is like a whole another beast. And I would say, if you are just starting out, do not assume that you need to do what everyone says you need to do. Like, just see for yourself, it's going to depend on your industry, but I don't run those social accounts. So that obviously would be a big part of my day if I were going to commit to that. So if it was just me, I just wouldn't do it. You know, like that's, that's where I would be at if I was a solopreneur. So during my workday, it's honestly not much of a struggle for me because I know that I just do not have time to be on social. So sometimes I'll hop on to do something, promote something, share something really quickly. But beyond that, it's just not built into my workday at all. So where I struggle with being on the phone too much would be in off days or in the afternoons. So I have guarded my work time fairly well. That's not to say perfectly for sure.
(19:48):
Somethings can like creep in and I can get distracted. I often find that if you feel overwhelmed by your to do list, it can be very easy to like, just stop and do something mindless. And that's not helpful.
Laura (19:59):
A little hit of dopamine. Right?
Shay (20:01):
Absolutely. And I would not be an advocate of that for myself or for others. So I draw those boundary lines pretty well as it relates to work. So in our family, we're constantly fighting against that in free time and family time. So if I do more social media relating to my personal account, it's on my off days, then I have to battle that like, man, I don't even know what I did today because I multitasked all day I was on the phone, checking Instagram comments or posting something and, and kind of doing other things around the house. And I hate the way that feels. I just hate the way that feels. So I know that it's an issue and I don't even enjoy it. So I have to perpetually re pep-talk myself out of like, it doesn't matter what's happening there. Like just step away.
(20:49):
And then in the evenings, we definitely, my husband and I both have boundaries like clear cut boundaries, setup of phones in the sense that we don't have anything pushed to our phones. So that's helpful in work, work hours. It's helpful in personal hours, it's helpful in evening and weekend hours, we don't have any email push to our phones. We don't have anything push to our friends with the exception of text messages. And my team doesn't really communicate via text unless it's an emergency. So that helps. But we all, we all fall into just the tendency to, oh, I'm bored. Let me just stop and scroll. And I would say for me, that's just like a day by day by day fight. Like yes, you can sit in a car at a stoplight without something in your hand. Yes. You can pump gas without, you're not even supposed to hold a phone when you pump gas.
(21:38):
Like you need room to think we need time to be bored and to sit in stillness. And I think that the reality is a lot of times we are using the phone to avoid painful areas of our life that need to be attended to whether that is a marriage that is struggling, whether that is a child that needs attention, whether that's a house that needs cleaning or that kind of thing. That's not quite as important as like marriage and kids.
(22:12):
But sometimes a lot of times we are on our phones as a means of, and working for that matter as a means of avoiding and not dealing with other heavier things, maybe it's taking care of our own bodies or, you know, there's just, so I think each one of us has to be very, very honest about what we are potentially avoiding by being on our phones and then invite in some accountability, whether that's your spouse or your kids. And that's so hard. If you tell your kids, which I have done kids, if you see mommy on with my phone in my hand, while I'm driving, you need to say something don't, you know, it, they will say something every time. They love to be invited into accountability when it's like getting to tell mom she's falling out of line. So be humble enough to invite in accountability.
(23:07):
So that's, that is true of my husband and I, that as painful as it is, we kind of will both say like, whatcha doing? Whatcha doing over there on your phone? And, and we've invited the kids to speak into that too. What do you think? Do you think mommy and daddy you're on our phones too much? Like what would you like to see? How does that make you feel painful conversations, but they serve as motivators and changemakers for us in our home. As we kind of battle with that, I love that.
Laura (23:33):
I love that you shared that and they were so authentic about it. And it just made me remember that. I think I saw either post or blog post from Michael Hyatt. He has a lock on his apps for a certain amount of time per week. And that his wife has the password to unlock it.
Shay (23:51):
I'm telling you, it sounds like, well, that's silly. We don't need that. But the reality is that if you want to protect the things you love and you, you need silly boundaries.
Laura (23:59):
You do. And I haven't had the guts to do that yet, but listening to you, I'm like probably it's a good idea.
Shay (24:06):
You know what I've learned? Everything's going to be okay. It's not all going to fall apart. Nobody's going to miss you. Like it's really okay. And you know what? Your life will be better for it.
Laura (24:14):
Yes, yes. And you're probably even be more creative. You'll be more intuitive because you aren’t as influenced by everything happening around you. And then I think what happens is that you end up making a decision based on the last, the latest data point, whatever the decision is, creating space for that problem solving.
Shay (24:36):
How important is it for creatives specifically to be present where they are and to be paying attention to the sites and the sounds and the smells and the feelings and the relationships like that's so important as fuel for your creative work, that if you're distracted, then you're, you're only, you're only shooting yourself in the foot because you're not tuned in and alert and aware and awake to create a fuel around you. And then also just like obviously important relational dynamics around you.
Laura (25:09):
Yeah. I totally agree. So for somebody who's just starting out and they have the opportunity to not learn this the hard way. Is there any like quick tips you would give them to just think about how to start their business with the end in mind? Yeah. So I think I would talk with your spouse. If you're married, about what healthy work life parameters would look like for your family, what, what is the ideal situation like have that conversation first. I know it might not be able to work out, but at least have that conversation about what would be the ideal. When would you work? Would you work in the mornings? Would you work mid day? Would you work in the evenings? Would you only work on certain days of the week? When would it cut off?
Shay (25:53):
I think having that conversation internally with yourself about like, what would it take for me to thrive? Okay. I would love to be able to go to the gym in the morning or to meet up for coffee with a friend. So my ideal work life would start at 10:00 AM and it would go until 3:00 PM. When the kids come home, you have the freedom as a business owner to do that. If you skip over that step and you don't do that, then your clients and your business will just own you and your schedule. And you're going to spend the whole rest of your time as an entrepreneur, trying to just catch up and fall in line and, and react and do whatever your business dictates.
(26:29):
But you have the freedom now, even if you're there, okay, we can go backwards and we can, so we can start a fresh and set boundaries, but you have the freedom absolutely to establish what is the ideal for you and your family to thrive and then ask your clients, the clients that are the right fit for you to honor and respect those boundaries. And so I would say, start with what days of the week work best for you to work? What hours of the week works best for you to work? What type of work feels the most fueling and life giving and, and back to the numbers, like what type of work are you doing that actually is showing a good return on the investment of your time, energy effort? And I would establish some of those things. I would put it in your autoresponder. I would educate your clients about that. I would set up whatever things need to happen, whether it's like an alert on your phone that says, shut it down or whatever needs to happen so that you help yourself with some accountability.
(27:30):
Then I would say, do that, the right clients are going to stick with you. And if you like to read the Pumpkin Plan, and if you believe what I'm saying, what I was saying early on, you can still have exponential growth. I think people just get paralyzed with fear of loss of money, loss of clients, loss of opportunity, that they're afraid to set boundaries, so they don't when really setting the boundaries, focusing in the work 80, 20, your business and folks having 20% is actually going to give you more speed on the runway to see exponential growth and profitability, as opposed to doing what you fear it will do. So, saying yes to all of it is not actually helping with exponential growth and profitability in the way that we think it is. So start with those like very basic parameters, being honest with yourself, letting in your spouse, or a friend who can kind of help speak into those things would be probably what I would say as a starting point.
Laura (28:29):
I love that such good advice. And I will say you practice what you preach because at the bottom of your email, when we were back at your hours, I copied and pasted it and sent it back to you being like, can we talk about this? Everybody who is teaching is practicing what they're preaching because Lara Casey had an interview with me and I emailed her about something today. And she emailed back and said, I'm taking the month of September off. That was like her auto reply. That's awesome girl.
Shay (28:53):
Isn't that why we got into business-isn't that why we got into business was to be able to take a week off or take two weeks off and take a month off or even take two days a week off. And we end up just slaves to the business and working 24/7
Laura (29:08):
It's what people need to hear, because I think if you haven't learned this the hard way you will, if you're in the middle of it, I want you to be encouraged that you're not alone. And if you're on the other side of this, you know, it. Like when I, people will say to me like, oh my gosh, I'm so busy. There's no way possible. And I'm like, there is somebody running Target. And honestly, when you meet those CEOs, because they need them from time to time with my consulting work, they are leaving the office at five o'clock like successful people have figured out how to delegate, how to work in their zone of genius and what you're teaching people is exactly what they need to hear at this stage in their business. And it's something that has been, I'm so grateful.
(29:50):
I'm also, as you know, such a huge fan of your work, we both came from a photography background and I never really bought stock because I can do it. I've got no right next to my computer here, I have thousands of dollars’ worth of camera equipment, but then I saw yours and I was like, wow. So I am such a huge fan of your stock shop. I use it in my webinars. If you look at my stories on Instagram, you'll see her work. So it really is such a great value. And it's such high-quality work. Thank you so much Shay for being here. It was great to have you.
Shay (30:24):
Thanks for just giving me the chance to do it. I love this kind of thing.
Laura (30:31):
Make sure to visit our website, www.joybrand.com/podcast where you can subscribe to the show in iTunes, Stitcher, or RSS so that you'll never miss an episode. While you're at it, if you find a value in this show, we'd appreciate a rating on iTunes or if you just simply tell a friend about it, that would help us out a lot too. Thanks so much for listening.
The Scale with Joy podcast dives into the mindset and strategies of scaling your company to the million dollar mark and beyond. Each week, we follow the journeys of innovators, disruptors, experts and leaders - sharing behind the scenes stories of their most challenging moments and greatest lessons learned-all while building their multi-million dollar empires.