#17: Choosing Your Very Best Yes with Jennifer Allwood, Author and Influencer
Have you watched the movie “Yes Man” with Jim Carrey where his character takes a seminar and decides to start saying yes to everything in his life, just to realize that constantly saying yes isn’t always a good thing?
In this episode, I was joined by my client, author and business coach, Jennifer Allwood, who has grown a multi-seven-figure online business. She shared how she had to take a step back from saying yes to carefully choose what things were actually aligned with where she wanted her business to go.
Jennifer candidly speaks about:
Slowing down to speed up to avoid burnout
Why she wrote her book “Fear Is Not the Boss of You” to help people learn how to have hard conversations and make difficult decisions without being paralyzed by fear
How picking and choosing what to say yes to brings her more joy and happiness in her family and business
If you feel like you are always putting too much on your plate that isn’t bringing you joy, tune into this episode to learn how to say your BEST yes!
Check out Jennifer’s website here, where you can buy her book, or follow her on Instagram @jenniferallwood.
Are you a visionary entrepreneur who wants to create change with your company in the world? If so, I want to let you know about a free masterclass that I just wrapped up. In this short but powerful training, I teach you exactly how to create a brand that inspires the hearts and minds of your audience and invites them into massive action. These are the very same frameworks that I've used to help my own private consulting clients and national companies you know and love, spread their mission, launch expansion, and accelerate influence. To join in, visit https://joybrandcreative.com/movement.
Listen to the Show:
Laura (00:00):
This is the Scale with Joy podcast: episode 17, choosing your very best yes with Jennifer Allwood.
(00:11):
Welcome to the Scale with Joy show, a podcast about scaling your company while living your most purposeful life because here's the thing, there are no rules to say you can't grow a massively profitable empire and have joy in the everyday. My name is Laura Meyer and let's get started.
(00:34):
Many of you might be wondering what it's like to actually grow a business and what happens when you get to that seven figure or multiple seven figure range. What are some of the things that come up in the decisions you make and most importantly, who do you need to surround yourself with to get to that next level from a place of joy and peace? Well, my friend and client, Jennifer Allwood sat down with me today and she shared all of those things with you. She went into exactly what she's gone through in the last few years to grow her business to multiple seven figures. And then how is she shifting and moving forward so that she can rest easily knowing that a strategy is in place that will give her joy and love and peace and all of the rewards that entrepreneurship has the ability to give us if we can let go of that strain of forcing it to happen.
(01:32):
This is when the work becomes fun and this idea that it may not come together in the exact way that we want it to, but we're always playing that long game of strategy and that we can again, rest easy just knowing that we've got the right plan in place and that our values drove those decisions. So I'm just so excited to share with you how all of these ideas and more in this conversation with Jennifer Allwood.
(01:58):
Hey everybody, and welcome back to the Scale with Joy show. So today I am here with somebody who has been very special to me in the last few months since we've met. It's Jennifer Allwood. And not only is she about to drop some major wisdom on you, she is also a client. And so we're going to talk a little bit about what it's like to work together and what it's like to actually have somebody in your business looking at it from the outside, but giving you a sense of what might be able to be improved upon and having that strategic advisor just in your pocket at any time. So thanks for joining me, Jennifer. It's great to have you here.
Jennifer (02:33):
Laura, I'm excited. Thanks for having me.
Laura (02:36):
Yeah, so we met last November at the iconic conference and I had been talking to a bunch of your friends and talking about business and then you turned to me and you were like, what do you tell me?
Jennifer (02:52):
Tell me all the things that you do.
Laura (02:54):
Tell me all the things. Yeah. Tell me about like what you help with and how you help. And we ended having coffee and just a really nice connection. And you were at a place in your business where you were really looking to figure out what was next in terms of growth but also for you personally too.
Jennifer (03:10):
Yeah. Yeah. And, it was interesting, we had a mutual friend and so, that helped. It felt like you were a real safe place, you know, because the thing about kind of where I'm at in business is you don't often meet people, you feel like you can kind of let down all of the walls and be really authentic about what's going on behind the scenes, what's going on actually with the numbers, what aren't just vanity matrices that, you know, sound really good, but they're more, you know, just ego. And so yeah, for some reason I felt like you were a really safe place for me to really kind of start talking about some business stuff. It was really fun. I remember later you said, it's kind of like I dumped out my business purse on the table and then we got to have conversations about how to put it all back in.
Laura (03:55):
Yeah. Take out all the wrappers, throw out the things that maybe aren't working anymore and put it back.
Jennifer (04:04):
Chewed up piece of gum, hair tie, dog biscuits. Yeah. All the things.
Laura (04:05):
All of those things in the business for you're like, why am I doing this again? It made sense maybe a year or two ago, but it really doesn't now.
Jennifer (04:14):
Well, the conversation I think was really valuable and cool for me because you asked me questions, Laura, that nobody's really asked and because we started out the conversation with me probably throwing around numbers more than likely because you know, I'm numbers driven and goal driven and I knew that I wanted to double where we're at financially and you were just really calm, cool and collected. I'm like, so what's your plan on doing that? Well, we are just going to push harder. We are just going to launch a little more. We're just going to make more products. Like you know, it's interesting because in my head I hadn't really gone, I hadn't really drilled way down. I knew that every year I'd really like to, you know, double where we're at income wise. And so I had you know, the big number in mind, but in terms of like how are we going to get there, I didn't actually know the answer to that.
Laura (05:05):
Yeah. And I think many times when you get to that seven figure, multiple seven figure stage, you really start outgrowing a lot of the formulas and it's really a matter of creating a strategy around the life that you want most. And you really at the time, had a lot going on both personally, you had taken in your daughter fairly unexpectedly. I think this was before we met a girl. She was going to spend the night one time and then lived with us for 20 months on top of, you know, three biological children. So yeah, lots of, so home is kind of chaotic.
(05:39):
Yep, absolutely. And then also you were on this go, go, go. You had published your first book. It was in the process of being edited and distributed. That took a ton of time and effort, which is an amazing book and I definitely want to make sure that we talk about it. And at the same time it felt like you were done with all the yeses. You were, like I say yes to everything, right? You were kind of in that place.
Jennifer (06:04):
Well, I think that sometimes we get roped into this idea of I should want to be speaking at people's events. So if they ask, I shouldn't say yes, I should want to host my own live event. I should, like, I felt like there was a lot of things that I should do. But you and I have also had a lot of conversations around that I often feel like I don't fit into, I kind of straddle two worlds as you know. One is like, you know, the, the businesspeople world, I've got a foot in that world and the other is really more faith based and I have kind of a foot in that world. And, and so sometimes when you don't know where you belong almost, you feel like, well let me try some things over here with these people and see if that's fits and let me try over here with these people and see what that fits in.
(06:47):
And both people in both places, they're, they're doing, you know, X, Y, and Z. And so I probably better do X, Y, and Z. But I was having a lot of internal turmoil about that as you know, because, I feel like some of the joy had kind of been stripped out of where my business had grown to. Like financially we're kicking butt. I mean I would have never dreamed we'd be at the multi-millions that we're doing per year, but it doesn't, it a lot of the things that I was saying yes to really, they weren't exciting me and they were giving me a lot of anxiety and a lot they feel pressure and at 48 with a kiddo graduating high school, two more teenagers and then now a kindergartner that we're trying to adopt and a book being launched out into the world. Like I felt like I was making decisions like, because I kept saying to you, I really want a business with low stress and I don't want a lot of pressure and I want it to be fun like it used to be. And yet I keep making decisions that are putting me down this path of more pressure, more stress, more performance. And so you and I had to really do some nice deep digging on why I keep doing that and how to put some things in place in my business that would allow me to kind of back the bus up and rethink some of the things I was doing.
Laura (08:03):
I think one of the most valuable things that you could share is to other people who are feeling that same way, maybe some of the things that you've learned from us working together, some of those takeaways, cause you're not the only person who has felt that way. If anybody has listened to prior episodes of the Scale with Joy show, you know that once you get to the certain level in your business, what got you here isn't going to get you there. And it's really important to reevaluate. And so if you wouldn't mind just maybe sharing a couple of those takeaways.
Jennifer (08:32):
Yeah. So you were the first person outside of my husband and myself and our accountant who I've let like kind of really look at the books, which felt very vulnerable. It felt like standing in front of you totally naked saying, please say nice things. And so, and you and I had a long conversation about why looking at the numbers, it feels so vulnerable for me and I, for the longest time I was like, okay, we've got plenty of money in the bank. Like, you know, we don't need to really look that closely at things. I can kind of buy what I want when I want. And so unless that feels like it's going in the wrong direction like that, I didn't really want to really start looking deep into the numbers. But I also knew that like last year we made just a little bit more than we did the year before, but we spent more last year than we did the year before and you, so you really encouraged me to like really start getting into our numbers because the truth is we can say, you know, I made 2 million last year or 5 million last year, ten million last year. But the truth is like how much are you keeping is one of the most important things that I knew in my knower that that was so important. But in working with you, I'm like, this is so important that we figure out how much are we keeping. Because if you're making 10 million but only keeping one.
(09:46):
So you and I worked on number one, you tried really hard to get me to do the thing that I hadn't been wanting to do, which was really look at the numbers closely. And I remember saying to you, it feels like when you've just been eating mashed potatoes and ice cream for months, and this new thing that I found during quarantine, Laura, if I put M&Ms in warm popcorn and sit down to like Netflix, oh, it's like heaven. It's like heaven a bag. It's just, I think that's what it's like angels are singing everywhere. And so I've been avoiding getting on the scale cause I'm like, I know darn good and well what I've done to myself. I know that I've gone completely in the wrong direction. And that's kind of how I was feeling about some of the number of things and just that I didn't want to look at it because I was almost afraid of what it would say. And the good news was the numbers were, you know, they, they were fine and they were even better than fine, they were really good, but there's some areas that we could have really, you know, use some work on.
(10:41):
And so it was really good feeling like I could kind of open up the books to someone and having somebody other than my accountant kind of validate what we're doing. You know, it's almost like just getting that little bit of words of affirmation is my love language, by the way. So, you know, when you're working with someone who says you're the good place, I'm like, thank you. Thank you. I really needed to hear that. But it was an eye opener to go through that work. And I would be lying if I didn't say that every month when I still get the financials, I still get this weird thing in the pit of my stomach. Does that ever go away?
Laura (11:11):
It does because we're starting to create some lead cashflow reports for you. We're starting to create some lead marketing reports and so I think what you're really saying summarizes the way that so many entrepreneurs feel about their finances, right? It's like even when you look at it like they'll be like, oh, you know, I have a bookkeeper. I have a financial advisor or a CFO. It's still not somebody who's looking at it from a strategic standpoint. They're looking at it from a numbers standpoint, like what bucket should this go in? And it kind of almost doesn't matter. Like we had that conversation for a little while, but I'm like, let's not even worry about it. I just want to make sure that you know what to expect from your business and when you don't know what to expect from your business. When you're constantly in reactive mode, you have this low-level anxiety like grade anxiety because it's just reactionary.
(11:56):
It's like, okay, let's hope that this went well. Every month when you look it up, you know you look at it and we're actually starting to put some reports into your business where we can know what we're spending on marketing and know what we're getting for that spend. And as a result then we can predict out 6-12 months in advance and how we think the business will go and then we can measure it against and then it starts getting really fun, right? Because it starts becoming almost like a game where you're like, okay, this is what we said we were going to do. Did we do it? How far off are we? What can we do about how far off we are? And it was above or below and, and the thing about a P& L, it's, it's historical, right? So it's just telling us what happened in the past. It's kind of like eating the M&Ms on the popcorn for a week straight and getting on the scale and being like, oh, now we've got some work to do, we've got some work to do. And I remember saying to you, okay, we're going to hold hands and get on the scale together.
Jennifer (12:55):
So that was one really good thing. The other thing is you and I had a lot of conversations about slowing down to speed up. An because as an Enneagram three and you know, just a person who's really driven in general, I say that I really want this lifestyle where I don't work very much and where I really, you know, want freedom of my time and freedom and my finances. But I keep making decisions that are taking me in completely the opposite direction because you know, bright, shiny objects and it could be profitable and this is what people say I should do. And so I love the whole slow down so that you can speed up that you and I have been going through in the last several months, you know, and thankfully we're in a financial position where we could really do that where we can because we're able to really step back and be like, okay, we don't have to launch anything right now.
(13:47):
We don't have to launch anything for this year if we don't want to. We could just maintain if we want to. And so there's been a lot of really great lessons to come out of that from that conversation that we had early on about slowing down to speed up. A lot of them are just dialing back into what is it that you actually want? Like I know what you've said you want, but if you're making decisions that are kind of going counterintuitive to that, do you actually still really want what you want? Or have you changed what you want? And then I'm like, gosh, stop it. Get out of my voxer Laura. Those conversations have been really good. They've been, it's almost like business therapy.
Laura (14:23):
Yeah. That doesn't even hurt my feelings cause I know you're going to say get out of my voxer and thank voxer me later.
Jennifer (14:31):
Yeah. Slowing down to speed up has been really, really good because I think we have this thing in our head thinking, okay so if I did 2 million last year, I need to do 4 million next year and then eight million... and we'd like, we play these games, these numbers in our head. And so unless we had some other strategy other than just push, push, push, you know, and that's what we really needed. We really needed to slow down and be like, okay what strategy is going to get us to where we're wanting to going without more push. Cause I'm not into the push. And you know this, after getting to know me, I like having a business. I love to work number one. But I also love to not work and I think that's okay and better than okay. And you know, it's my last few months with my oldest son being at home and I kind of missed a lot of last summer because I was writing Fear is not the Boss of You and I don't want to do that again this summer and I don't want to say yes to things just because I think that I should, I actually do. They actually, really are they in alignment with where we're trying to go in the company and what we're trying to do in terms of being very methodical and discipline and what we're saying yes to. So yeah, we're getting there, we're going to get there, we're all gonna make it.
Laura (15:36):
And we're going to make it without hustling. I know with the whole hustle word; you and I are really well aligned on this value system and I think that's one of the reasons why we're such a good match is because of that value alignment. And I am like, whenever I hear the word hustle, I just want to be like, you don't have to, you can use strategy instead.
Jennifer (15:57):
You can. You know, I have sat on my own podcast before Laura, that I think that there's, cause I believe in working hard and you believe in working hard. It's biblical, it's just good work ethic. It's all the things. But I really think that in America we have correlated working hard with working long. And people think that if you're working hard, you're working 60 hours a week, I want to put any even 30 hours a week. I mean when you're saying when you're, when you're pulling all of those hours and something is suffering, whether it's your health, whether it's your family, whether it's your relationships, but you can't continue that push and that hustle for a sustained amount of time. I think you can for short bursts in short seasons when necessary, but you can't do it year in and year out and something's going to start breaking. And perhaps this is just me getting ready to turn 49 speaking. I don't know. But I feel like I've got a few years on perhaps some of your listeners. And I wish that I had pushed less for all those years when I was pushing as hard as I did.
Laura (16:59):
And I would encourage anybody who's listening that resonates with this message that you can always switch, but it's a little bit more in your head than anything, right? It's giving yourself permission to make it easy because I know we've created some margin for you. We've created some time freedom and even in the last few weeks I've been really encouraging you to take advantage of that time freedom to relax into it, to rest into it. Because we've created some strategies that work in the background of your business that don't require you to go at it with brute force anymore. Right? And some of the strategies still need to get tweaked and some of them are working the way we were hoping and we, we just, you know, tackle each little piece one at a time and create some wins. And I think that's how you create that long game without it being brute force anymore. And I would really encourage anybody who is feeling close to that state of burnout to really think about what can I slow down to speed up? And we've talked about burnout, like how hard it is to come back from burnout. And when you're really far gone, it is, it's just important to recover from. And so I've really encouraged you in that, in that space. And yeah, sometimes it's hard, right?
Jennifer (18:10):
It's hard. Well, it's hard because the world is weird right now, number one. Yeah. And, you know, if you're on social media at all, you're seeing what other people in your industry and in your niche doing. And I know in my lane there are so many people who are launching right now and they're opening up their memberships right now, you know, I serve women who are trying to build their social media and use social media to build their business online. So there would be literally probably no better time for us to be launching, opening up my paid group than right now in the middle of a pandemic when everybody's wanting to learn how to make money online. Right.
(18:42):
And, but I was like, I was telling you yesterday, I just, I absolutely can't. And I did a podcast episode a couple of weeks ago about how, um, you know, I'm a woman of faith and so I felt like God had given me a word for my listeners that to really know what season you're in, are you in a season of running or a season of resting? And there are some women right now who are supposed to be running and they're supposed to be launching and they are absolutely like launching things that the world needs. And then there's those of us who are like me right now and we're just sitting on the back deck with a glass of wine and we're staring at the sunset just thinking probably shouldn't be doing something, but I don't have it in me. I'm just going to rest. And then where I'm at and it feels really good.
(19:21):
And the interesting thing is though, is I think it's hard for somebody that does love her business. Who is somebody that's very goal-driven, who has big goals. I'm Enneagram three. It's sometimes hard to go, but gosh, I could be adding another thousand people to my paid group right now and to go, okay, but you know what, I'm just gonna. I'm just going to not, right.
Laura (19:44):
Or we can a different way. It just won't be this huge rush. You won't feel this hurry to get it done within a certain period of time. And I think that's a lot of times when we experience burnout we are in such a huge rush to get to this place or to get this thing that we don't give ourselves the space and the time to actually make it easy. Cause usually over time the easier, simpler solution tends to appear. And that tends to happen when we rest into it. And I think this is a big switch that many entrepreneurs make, is that they realize at a certain point that they want their next million or several million to come a little bit easier than the first few did. And I would encourage anybody who's listening, that is a hundred percent possible. And to be open to that possibility because I think it's really, it's really healthy. It's a healthy perspective to have.
Jennifer (20:32):
Yeah. And it's, you know, it's been a shift for our team because we are used to going into launch mode, you know, about once a quarter with something pushing hard on something, whether it's fears not the boss of you being launched or I have, you know, my paid membership or I have a course I do once a year, like we're used to launching regularly. So to now go, you know what, we don't actually even have it on the calendar to launch again. And, and several people on that team were like, wait, what?
Laura (20:59):
They were, they're like, when are we launching again? And I was like, whenever you want, but you don't have to.
Jennifer (21:05):
We don't have to. Yeah. So it's a whole different way of looking at business when you realize that you've, you've done enough, right. Things that you don't have to and, and that feels really good. I'm going to be really honest with you. It feels really good to be in a place where I don't have to, I keep thinking I should, but I don't have to. And isn't it interesting like at 49 that there's still like this internal turmoil, but you know even my book is called Fear is Not the Boss of You. I'm like launching is not the boss of me, but you should launch. This is where we're currently at.
Laura (21:42):
Hey there! Are you a visionary entrepreneur who wants to create change with your company in the world? If so, I want to let you know about a free masterclass that I just wrapped up. In this short but powerful training, I teach you exactly how to create a brand that inspires the hearts and minds of your audience and invites them into massive action. These are the very same frameworks that I've used to help my own private consulting clients and national companies you know and love, spread their mission, launch expansion, and accelerate influence to join in, visit joybrandcreative.com/ movement. That's joybrandcreative.com/movement. Also available in the show notes. Now, back to the show.
(22:25):
It's so funny cause one of your friends contacted me and said, you know, I heard you helped Jennifer. No longer launch. I'm like, well, not really. It's more what you want. It's more what you want for your life in the place that you're at in this moment. And I remember asking you as we were getting into the messaging and some of the marketing strategies that I was helping you with, I remember asking you one day just having this intuition to really question you on like what is it that you want? And it poured out of you like everything that you wanted and everything you saw for your life. It just flowed. And I knew that was the Holy spirit.
Jennifer (22:58):
Do you know that that is actually the name of a chapter in my book?
Laura (23:02):
I probably do because I have your book.
Jennifer (23:05):
I know. I think at least let me look at my own book because it's kind of funny, you forget, you know what? We changed the name of that so that, that's why. Okay. Originally there was one chapter called what is it that that you want. So isn't that funny? Because I had a business coach asked me that probably five or six years ago and I started to cry when she asked me because I didn't really know what I wanted. I just was kind of doing what everybody else, what I saw, go before me do what I thought was the next logical thing and that I should do. So.
Laura (23:35):
Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it changes, right? As your business changes. And as we had that new conversation, it's again, not about one particular strategy, and I think that's one of the things that makes it hard for me and a lot of ways because I'll look at other coaches and they're selling their formula and their strategy. And I know in my heart that for the people I serve, it's more about what's right for them than what's right across the board and digging into their business and helping them figure out those next steps without actually getting caught up in the should and shouldn't really looking at what's on your heart and where do you want to grow and how do you want to get there? Because there's a lot of paths to success. And which one do you want to walk down and stay committed to?
Jennifer (24:19):
And you know that I'm the less push. More free time freedom, more freedom girl freedom. Because freedom for me and we talked about this early on is really freedom in my time and in my finances. So even if I have a full bank account, if I'm doing nothing but sitting at this desk for eight to 10 hours a day, five days a week, like just forget it. Like here's my purse because I, I just can't, I can't do that. I just, I need time away from here and out of here. And I remember hearing a business coach once say, no good ideas come from your desk. And that is so true. And I cannot stand looking at my calendar. There's been so many months, especially leading up to the launch of the book where I had, you know, five and six meetings every day and there was sometimes, Laura, I'd be like, this is not what I signed up for. I did not become an entrepreneur so that I could have six back to back meetings where I don't even have time to pee in between like, whose life is this? That's not fun.
(25:14):
You know what I'm saying? And so now that like the calendar is relatively clean. I mean when I look at June, it's like angels singing. It's like I have a full month with hardly anything on it. And the entrepreneur in me is like, okay, so we need to probably do, you know, blah blah. And I'm like, okay, stop. We don't have to. And what you say Jen, is that you want more free time. Your entire month of June is pretty much cleared. Are you going to be comfortable in keeping it cleared? It's such a revealing like feeling to go through because sometimes I think I say yes to things just purely for ego. You know, when great people asked me to be on their podcast or you know, what, I be involved in their summit or you know, will I speak here, come on a Facebook live and I, and they're all good things, but you know, giving yourself permission to say no is huge.
(26:10):
Yes. Yes. Oh, so I think that was the third thing that we were saying that I've learned from working together is being able, knowing what to say yes and no to, because you know what you're going for long-term, you know what you're trying to create and how you're going to get there. And once you have that just vision of what you're going to do next, it makes it a lot easier to filter. I think. And I haven't even had a chance to tell you yet. I'll Voxer you when we get off this, but yeah,, I had somebody reach out to us that wanted me to do a speaking engagement in the fall, in a very lovely place on a beach. And we told them no yesterday. Yeah, because you want to know why? Because it was in October. And can I tell you why.
(26:51):
October is my favorite month of the year. It's the year my husband and I got married and last, the last couple of October's for some reason, Laura, I have filled my October's to the brim and every October I'm like, I'm so angry at myself. I miss the whole month. Like one of my kids' birthdays is in October. Our anniversary is in October. I just love the weather in Kansas City in October. It's just glorious to be alive in October. I love that month. And when my calendar is absolutely full, then it's like, well then it turns gray and gloomy in November. I missed the whole thing. So every year, the middle of October going, why do I do this to myself every October? Why do I do it every October? I tell myself I'm not going to fill up my October. And I do. There's a lot of conferences and things in October, like I don't know why or we launch in October, so then it's, you know, meeting after meeting after meeting. And so I told Jenna my project manager yesterday, I said, you know what we're going to say no. And I'll tell you why because it's in October.
Laura (30:32):
And so what for you, what was then, what was the time that fear came in for you as you were growing your business?
Jennifer (30:41):
So fear comes in at every level for me. I mean even the work that we're doing saying no, I mean I sound like a badass saying Oh no, I said no yesterday because it was in October and there was that part of me is like I'll never ask again, you know, that's money we're missing out on and oh we could have since it's on the beach, we could have made it into a trip and there's that fear over, I hope I'm not making the wrong decision. So I'm someone that struggles with fear quite a bit. And I think you know that probably after we have, you know, worked together long enough, but the book is called Fear is not the Boss of You it's not a business book, although it will help women in business.
(31:18):
We've actually had a ton of people, Laura order the book for their team, which is really, really cool. And it's, it's funny cause if you order over 10 books, it comes, this is like book nerdy stuff, but it comes from a different company called Porchlight. Yeah, you can get like a different price. We were number five in the month of April for all Porchlight books. People are ordering them for their Bible study or a book club or for their team for entrepreneurs. So, so anyway I wrote Fear is not the Boss of You because I think I've struggled with fear literally just all of my life. Not like you know, debilitating like stuck in bed, not that kind of fear but just anxiety and anxiousness and people pleasing and, and not doing something that I really want to do because I'm scared it's going to be a failure or I'm scared it's going to be a success and I still go through that all the time.
(32:04):
So the book is more about not like punching fear in the face cause what even is that like other days like I love that you just punch fear in the face. I'm like what does that mean? What does that even mean? So the book is really just, it's the subtitle is how to get out of your head and live the life you were made for. And so for me it's always doing things in spite of my fear. It's always going straight through. It's always going straight through and not trying to step around it. It's having the hard conversations. It's making the difficult choices. It's saying no when I'm worried about, you know, the repercussions. And so the book is really just about how you could be scared, but you can still do the things that you're wanting to do that you know that you're called to do or you feel like God is asking you to do regardless of your feelings. Cause fear is definitely a feeling.
Laura (32:50):
It is. It is a feeling. And how do you correlate fear with courage?
Jennifer (32:56):
I have a whole chapter in Fear is not the Boss of You. Another little nerdy book fact. So originally the title was called Confidence is a Crack of Crap. Did you know that
Laura (33:05):
I didn't know that but I'm not shocked. I know like I'm not, like I didn't even flinch.
Jennifer (33:12):
And so I think, and I get those words from my dad who always used to call stuff a crack of crap. And so my publisher was like, okay, we love you, but we probably need to simmer that back just a little. So now it's some lamo title of that chapter, but it's basically about the difference between confidence and courage and that we live in a world where confidence sells. People are coming out with courses on confidence. There's books on competence, there's, you know, get into this five-day confidence challenge like confidence sells because so many women are desperate for it. And so the whole chapter is really dedicated to the idea of you know, what like screw confidence like you, what you need is courage. What you need to be asking God for his courage. What you need to be displaying in front of your children is courage. What you need to go to the next level in your business is courage.
(33:51):
What you need to have those hard conversations to do the things in life you're wanting to do is courage to do it. Confidence may or may not come on the other side of it, but a courageous woman is unstoppable. I believe that with every single thing in me. And I also believe, and I think a lot of your audiences, females and probably some moms, I believe that as mothers we have this incredible opportunity to teach our children what living courageously means. Because you know, with four kids, like I outsource driving lessons, I have somebody else teaching them baseball, how to pitch baseball. We have somebody teaching golf lessons to the kids. Spanish at school, but like who teaches our kids how to be courageous even when they're scared, even when fear is like they're gripped with fear.
(34:35):
Who teaches our kids that? And if they're not learning that at home, they're not learning it because they're not going to learn it from MTV. They're not going to learn it from playing Minecraft. They're not going to learn it from the YouTube and the tik toks and all the other things. And so I have a whole chapter that just talks about, forget about confidence. Like hopefully you'll get confidence someday as the result of doing things that you're scared to do. You have the fear, you notice the fear, you look at the fear and you do it anyway and hopefully confidence will come. But then again maybe not. But the important thing is you did it. That's the important thing.
Laura (35:05):
So, what I love what you're saying about confidence too is that it's so dependent on the human condition and as Christians know that we were made in perfectly. So when we rely on ourselves and we try to make muster up all this confidence and we have all this pressure to feel confident when it's just courage, there isn't as much pressure around that. I feel like you don't have to show up perfect and be perfect cause you were made by somebody who, who is perfect and you're perfect in his eyes and that's when you can stop worrying about making sure that everything is done the way that you think it should be done and more about, I'm going to step into what's possible because I know that I have been created in the light of God.
Jennifer (36:13):
Absolutely. I love that. So, so I talk about courage a lot. It's important to me. I have a whole chapter where I talk about how God tricked me to doing a triathlon for my 40th birthday. You know, a lot of people go to Vegas. No, no, I'm going to do a triathlon. And not only did he tricked me to do a triathlon but I couldn't swim. And then, ABC, like the one with Matt Lauer, like the old ABC, cause Matt Lauer is not there anymore. But anyway, they contacted me. I'll never forget it. I was sitting at the movies with my kids and wanted to do a segment on me training for a triathlon for my 40th birthday. And I thought it was like a scam. I didn't believe him at first. And they literally sent out a filming crew. And so I was literally in spandex training for a triathlon, on ABC's today's show. So anyway, so I did a triathlon for my 40th birthday. I took me a year to learn how to swim and I'm not a confident swimmer at all.
(37:08):
And I had a panic attack in the water on my first triathlon and then signed up for another one, had a panic attack there. I've done 10 triathlons today and I've had a panic attack in the water, every single one, Laura. So like, I'm not a confident swimmer. I'm not. And so, so many people think that eventually, you know, I'm going to feel so confident. Well, maybe not, but I don't let that stop me. I still, I'm confident I'm not going to die usually because usually because there's lifeguards, but I'm still not a confident swimmer. But if we're waiting until we feel a certain way for waiting until we feel confident or if we're waiting until we don't feel fear any longer, we could be waiting forever. I mean, I could be 800 million years old before I do anything.
Laura (37:47):
So good. And the book is so fun and it's so funny. And as we were just laughing, I thought to myself how fortunate we are that we get to laugh and we get to have fun in business.
Jennifer (37:58):
Life is too short, and I, you know, work with you is interesting and that what you just said is interesting because, the reason so many of us started our own businesses is because we didn't want to do the traditional thing of sitting in an office where somebody was checking their clock saying, you know, it's 9:05 you're five minutes late and you're trying to explain why you just went through rush hour. Like I can remember having those jobs and part of what's supposed to be so amazing about being an entrepreneur is that we get to set our own rules. And it's interesting how I'd gotten to this place in my business where, you know, for many, many years I had set my own rules and then all of a sudden business exploded and you know, income was coming in at a much higher rate than what I was used to.
(38:39):
And so then I started making all these shifts and doing everything that I thought I was supposed to be doing in business. And you know, when you're at this level, you're supposed to have six meetings back to back and the fun has to be sucked right out of it. And you know what I mean? And it's so, it's, so, I love that you said that because business is still supposed to be fun and I love that I have the opportunity right now to really examine things from, is this something I actually really want to do or just that I feel like I should do because it's really great having the option of, of saying no to good things, but just that don't line up with where I'm wanting to go or you know, it feeling pressure less and it feeling fun for me.
Laura (39:15):
I think for everybody's lives, this idea that you would somehow suffer to get to a place where you no longer suffer like makes no sense, right? I think it's sometimes as entrepreneurs we get caught up in all of these things that we should do is like you were saying, and then we struggled along the way to get to some kind of destination that gives us what you know, gives us more of what we created. And I know, I really do believe Jennifer, your best work is yet to come and I think it's because you're going to have space and peace and freedom and joy to really settle into this next season of growing your business. And I think it's the best way to scale. I really do. And it's part of what I'm just, I'm so excited for you for it. And we laugh a lot on voxer. So we do.
Jennifer (40:03):
You have to remind me often of what I've said that it is that I want and why we’re doing the things that we're doing.
Laura (40:12):
Or we're going over the funnel and I'm talking about my epidural when I have this next baby and realized that my son's whole entire first grade class is listening. Remember that?
Jennifer (40:23):
Yes, I do remember that. These are the days.
Laura (40:25):
We can laugh and we can have fun and we don't have to be, in this confined space as we grow and we scale. And it's something that I'm such a big advocate of and something I'm just so glad that you're here and talking about. So thank you Jennifer for joining and thank you for just sharing and being honest and vulnerable and I know it's going to inspire so many people, so thanks.
Jennifer (40:48):
I appreciate you. Thanks for having me.
Laura (40:53):
Make sure to visit our website, joybrandcreative.com/podcast where you can subscribe to the show in iTunes, Stitcher, or RSS so that you'll never miss an episode. While you're at it, if you find value in this show, we'd appreciate a rating on iTunes or if you just simply tell a friend about it, that would help us out a lot too. Thanks so much for listening.
The Scale with Joy podcast dives into the mindset and strategies of scaling your company to the million dollar mark and beyond. Each week, we follow the journeys of innovators, disruptors, experts and leaders - sharing behind the scenes stories of their most challenging moments and greatest lessons learned-all while building their multi-million dollar empires.