#110: CMOs in the Wild with Kristen McCall, Online Marketing Coach
It’s always nice to have a friend as a guest on my podcast.
Especially someone who has a similar offer as me.
Today’s podcast guest is Kristen McCall, online marketing coach and fractional CMO.
Kristen and I chatted about:
How her winding career path has led her to where she is today
What makes someone a good consultant
The importance of knowing your worth
If you are interested in becoming a consultant, this episode is for you!
Learn more about Kristen here: https://kristenmccall.com or on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kristensmccall.
Listen to the Show:
Laura 00:02
Welcome to Next Level Leap, a podcast where we dive into the mindset and strategies of scaling your company and creating a legacy brand. As a top growth strategist, multi passionate entrepreneur, membership site owner, trainer, speaker, author and mom to three, I love exploring the journey of how we as founders can multiply our income impact and influence by landing on the other side of our next big leap. Let's get started!
Laura 00:36
Hey, everybody, I'm here with a friend of mine that I'm so excited for you to meet her name is Krista McCall. She is an online marketing coach and fractional chief marketing officer. Very similar to what I do. And we have a lot in common and we're going to be sharing with you what it's like to be a consultant in the wild.
Kristen 00:51
Love it. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me, Laura.
Laura 00:55
I feel like I need some animal noises or something. So tell me a little bit about like, let's just do a quick summary of your background. And then I want to talk about being a fractional chief marketing officer, which absolutely to get going. And then there'll be really fun to talk about.
Kristen 01:27
So my career is really wild and windy. So I'm going to bullet point it because I've been down a whole lot of different paths. But I studied public relations and advertising in school. So that's my, that's my background. And I, you know, I graduated during the financial crisis of recession of oh eight, and what took any job I could find, and I thought my first job was a copywriting job at this agency here in Nashville. And it turns out on my first day, they said, Hey, you're the new web girl. And I was like, Excuse me. You're building websites. And I was like, oh, okay, so I knew this much small amount of HTML. And I just dove in, and I built over 300 websites in two years. And it was crazy bananas. Fast forward, I dipped my toe into the entrepreneurial world had always had a creative flair, and was a wedding and portrait photographer for a while, was award winning, published in magazines. And then my life kind of fell apart. And I found myself going through a divorce, newly pregnant. And I was sitting at the end of an aisle photographing a wedding and wanted to yell, don't do it. And then I was like, perhaps you shouldn't be a wedding photographer.
Kristen 02:42
God provided and I got a wonderful job at a local university. And I was managing the website, the social media, the email marketing for the whole university. Fast forward, I was a publicist at a traditional publishing company. And I helped all of our big deal New York Times bestselling
authors develop their platform and the digital arm of what they did. So whenever they had a book launch, I would help with what are the digital components? How do they utilize their social media, their blog, all of that? Yeah. So then I went out on my own after that, and for the last, gosh, seven plus years, I've kind of hopped around to different consulting freelance situations, I was a coach in a well known program called to UCCX, which is run by a software company called Click Funnels. So I was teaching other entrepreneurs, how do you make a million dollars in your business? So yeah, so I've been a coach and a consultant, and a wide variety of roles, but not really to the level of what I'm doing now until you and I kind of started talking end of last year and about in December.
Laura 03:43
Okay, so this, that's a great lead in because your background is so varied. And I'm sure for so many people who are listening who have a marketing background. It's very natural to kind of feel like it's this long and windy road. But with no end in sight, right. Where you love marketing, you have great people skills from being a wedding gap, because that's no joke. You have great design skills. You have great web skills, right? Yeah. And sometimes it's hard to know how all of that is going to come together. Yeah, we're in a mastermind together. And one time you came to me and you were like, or what do you what do you do again?
Kristen 04:21
I will never forget the first time you kind of introduced what you do. And I was like, oh, yeah, that sounds awesome.
Laura 04:30
It is it is to take all of your experiences, right? The hard ones that yeah, the great ones, the you know, the hard lessons learned and you get to package it all up and help somebody else be better off because of those experiences. Right? Absolutely. So totally rewarding and that way he started chatting about how what I do right, I started working with you and how hoping you get that up and running. And when the first time you started kind of thinking about being a CMO, or fractional CMO, like, what are some of the first kind of experiences that you had just getting it up and going?
Kristen 05:12
I mean, I think my first kind of aha was like, people will pay me just for what I know. And not to do all the things, right. Like that kind of aha of like, hey, I'm going to show up, I'm just going to tell you what to do, which I like doing because I'm bossy sometimes. And then you and your team, go do it. And then I just remember thinking, Oh, my goodness, this is life changing. Because I do love I have such an eye for kind of the whole process of marketing through sales, that to be able to just download, hey, these are my recommendations. And this was what
needs to happen. And the first time I actually did that, and then also when you're making great money, I mean, it's just like, oh, this is fabulous. So yeah, it's been really great.
Laura 06:03
Yeah, it's so interesting. When we think about like, what makes somebody really good at this work, right? Yeah. Do you have experiences, it's the confidence and being able to tell somebody what to do and how to do it, which, you know, takes time, like it's morally takes time will results? Yeah, the more confident that you will be. Yep. And then also, yeah, like that kind of business, I feel like is rarely spoken about the type of business that's higher ticket, lower volume. Yeah. What many clients are taking right now?
Kristen 06:29
I mean, I maxed out last month, I have posted no to laugh at me, I maxed out at five, five clients. And this month, one of my clients is much more high ticket and much more involved at this, I'm kind of helping him set up some of his stuff, which I'm kind of taking a little bit of a mix of an agency and a CMO, like, yeah, I have people on my team that are kind of building some of the things I'm not doing any of it, which is great. I'm just kind of steering the ship. But that's taking a little bit more of my time. So right now, I only have two clients, which is amazing and awesome. And I don't have as many meetings on my on my calendar every week, which is just really great.
Laura 07:10
It's kind of that magic combination of people wanting done for you. Yep. Right. And then done with you. 100%. Is it's a very, it's a very different relationship. Like, what did those two relationships? How do they contrast for you?
Kristen 07:26
Yeah, I think what I've learned, even with just my first handful of clients is what to look for, in when I want to be a CMO. I'm looking for a CEO that's willing to listen, I'm also looking for a marketing team or a marketing manager or somebody boots on the ground in the marketing department that is skilled that knows what they're doing that I can say, hey, go do this, and they know what I'm talking about. Because if you don't have that marketing person, or if the volume of revenue for the company isn't to that point where they have a marketing team, I mean, it's just, it's kind of pointless like you can be I can tell you all the strategy all day long, but if there's nobody there in the company to do it, like it doesn't, I had that situation one time. And then I was like, oh, we need an actual person in here doing all of these things. So kind of the things that I look for on that aspect are the what I just listed. And then in the more agency side, let's say so one of my clients right now, he's a very big deal, author, expert, thought leader has made most of his money coaching, so very high ticket, ultra wealthy, high end coaching, but he doesn't have any digital products. So he wanted more of a digital product arm
of his business to reach more people. And he's very knowledgeable. So I'm helping him build that digital arm while also providing some strategy. And what does that sales process look like on your high ticket side as well as your digital product side? So yeah, so and looking for people that you just genuinely enjoy being like, enjoy talking to, I don't want to have meetings on my calendar, where I'm like, oh, I really don't like those people. I don't want to get on a call with them or whatever.
Laura 09:17
I mean, the cool thing about this kind of offers, there's more people out there that need our help, then there are people like us that do the work and if somebody comes your way, and they're not a good fit, or it's just not a good vibe, some people you vibe well with and some people you don't.
Kristen 09:31
Yeah, and the other part too, is learning. I think the hardest part, at least for me so far, and I'm about six months in has been learning who my ideal target audience is. And that's just the hardest part there. I helped a couple of people and one of them was in the E commerce space. And that's just that's just not I don't have number one, I don't have enough experience. So I'm not as confident and I just didn't know really how that industry worked. It is so different from the online only digital products, coaches, consultants, that kind of thing, it is so much different, that it was almost like outside of my level of knowledge and expertise. So I wasn't able to really create as much impact as I would have liked because I just didn't understand it as well.
Laura 10:20
And so funny, I took one ecommerce client, never again. And but what's really exciting is that we have free people who are students and my friends have an E commerce background. And it's still the same principles, right, like writing is still helping businesses that are fundamentally a sum of moving parts. Right. Like, it's not like, you know, I mean, it's get the lead, right, you know, 100% hold some kind of, yeah, some time to buy. Follow up. And then when you start getting used to different types of offers, and how they show up, then you start really seeing trends and being able to speak intelligently to like, what's working now? Which is one of the things I really love about this work. And so when you're kind of thinking about how, if you were if somebody else was really interested in being a marketing consultant, what are some of the things that you would tell them?
Kristen 11:18
Yeah, I would say, sit down and list out kind of all of your either clients or job experiences, and kind of what you learned at each of those things, it will help you just have the confidence to step into more of a consultant role, because you'll be able to see, oh, man, I do know, you know, aesthetically pleasing photography, and web design and blah, blah, blah, like, you'll be
able to build your own confidence. Because what I've seen, the more that I've talked to other people, you know, some of our friends in our mastermind or other people, they're like, oh, that sounds amazing. How could you do that. And the thing that I see is, especially women, and I'm very passionate about this, but I think women have a really hard time charging what we're worth, and saying my minimum price is $5,000 per month, and like not flinching and not, and not second guessing yourself, because on the sales side, as a CMO, or as a fractional CMO or consultant, you're still going to have to do the sales to close that client, right, you're going to have to show up on a sales call, or have somebody else on your sales team, closing those deals for you. And you have to have the confidence, you can't sell what you don't feel confident in. So you need to know what you're worth, and just be able to have some of those stories in your bank of like, okay, I helped this person do this. This is some of my case studies. These are the kinds of clients that I help and those kinds of things.
Laura 12:49
Yeah, that's so smart. And I think for me, it's, it was actually kind of liberating to not have to worry about charging what I was worth anymore. Yeah. Because when I started realizing that it was really just comes down to like, are they going to make more money than they're paying me? Right? Right, then it's kind of just like, my self worth is like, irrelevant, right? It's just, are you? Are you the kind of business? And do I have the right tools to provide to you within a timeframe? And will you do you have the right infrastructure to implement that advice so you're always making more money than what you're paying me and getting an ROI. And then we have a great relationship 100% till you're done getting an ROI for me, and then we've remained friends, which I never. So what's happened with a lot of my clients, and that's worked out awesome.
Kristen 13:34
Yeah, absolutely. And the other part on kind of the sales side is screen your clients really well, yes. And some of that happens in that discovery call or that introduction call where you guys are getting to know each other. And one of the things that I asked and I look out for is to ask them things like, okay, what are your goals for 2022? Because that helps me know, are you realistic? Or are you bogus, and you think Mary Poppins is going to come into your business, like people who think that is the magic pill to change their whole business? I don't want to work with those people. I had a conversation with someone, and they wanted to double their revenue from a certain amount of millions to another certain amount of millions. And I was like, okay, so you're an all digital product. Like it's possible. Yeah, for sure. And I said, but what was your revenue, like, in the first quarter of this year? And they're like, Oh, it was down by so and so percent and it was a significant amount down and I was like, Okay, so, just to clarify, you're down a certain amount of percent, but you want me to come up and make up all that difference and double your revenue in three quarters? And she was like, yes, it was like, Okay, well, that's not going to work like right, you know, it's like so asking those questions on the front end
will help you be a good consultant and make the right make decision for who you're working for. So you don't set yourself up for disaster with clients that have really unreasonable expectations.
Laura 15:07
Yeah, I love that. And even the cool thing about a multimillion dollar business is that even if you move them 5%, right, like they're making sure on your retainer. They don't have to double their revenue to make money on it. They can right increase 20% and usually that's more. It's not everybody enjoys it more. Yep. And it's much more realistic per prescription. Yep. So just kind of as we're wrapping up this, I thank you so much for sharing this. I love chatting with other marketing people. So marketing people or my people, it's probably the same for you, too. Yep. And so just, if you wouldn't mind kind of contrasting your just your business and really your life. Like before, I helped you get this consulting offer off the ground versus like today, like what? Yeah, what was happening at that time? And then kind of where are you now?
Kristen 15:59
Yeah, so end of last year, I've been on my own as an entrepreneur for the last eight plus years. But I kind of I think I held out. I'm a really high performance, like go getter. And I think I had held out this candle that I was going to be some like big wig executive at some point. And a recruiter actually found me on LinkedIn and said, Hey, there's this coaching consulting company here in town. They're willing to, you know, they really want to interview anyway, long story short, I took this job that I thought was going to be just like the bee's knees. It was a very well known company, kind of in our industry. I was a director of marketing, I was managing over $500,000 of ad spend a month. And so I was like, you know, this is going to be great. This is going to be awesome. Turns out newsflash, I don't like full time jobs. In case, I didn't already know that. But it was the first time I had had a job since I had kids. And I was like, Oh, this does not work with our lifestyle. As a family of three, three kids and a husband and a dog like that does not work. Mom needs to not have a full time job. I do not need to go into an office. Like there were just all these lifestyle, you know, things and values that I have that I was like, Oh my gosh, this does not work at all. Which is why kind of at the end of last year, I had this like, Aha, kind of like, what the heck am I doing with my life. But it was the missing piece that I needed to, to move my confidence up, which is kind of what we've talked about a lot today is just, you do have to have the confidence and you know that you know what you're talking about. Because last year, I was just kind of playing small. I was teaching sales funnels 101, to some coaches, and just like really basic, basic, basic stuff, which there's nothing wrong with that. And there's a need in the market for people to understand that I'm just not that person.
Kristen 17:50
I'm not good at it. I don't want to talk to people that don't understand the difference between a Facebook group and a Facebook page. And if that's your question, I am targeting the wrong
people. So having that job and kind of realizing Actually, no, I want to be an entrepreneur that is absolutely like the beat of my heart. I want to help people. And I really know what I'm talking about, which is great. It was a good, it was a good Aha, I'm very stubborn. So I have to fail in order to learn things. So anyway, fast forward, and having this consulting arm of my business has allowed me to make more money than I've ever made. It's allowed me to have more time with my kids. I'm able to go to lunch at school, and I'm able to take off at two o'clock to get my preschooler if I need to, I'm able to not like my whole calendar isn't, you know, morning, noon and night meetings, I have a limited number of meetings, I've actually been able to craft my ideal week, like I've heard that saying and tried to do that for years, like years, probably a decade and I've been like my ideal calendar. And then I'm like, No, that doesn't work. It does. I have too much on my plate. But now I'm actually able to say okay, Monday and Tuesdays are my client meeting days, Wednesdays more of my personal days, I do gym and counseling, and I'm able to afford as much counseling as I want, which is awesome. And then Thursday is more kind of like friend day, I make sure to have lunch with a friend just I'm able to do a lot of these things. I've been able to pay for stuff for my family that I've never been able to. I mean, it's just and my husband kind of looks at me. It's I've had a lot of success in various ways in my career, but this is the first time he looked at me it was like, Dang girl, like, you know what you're doing. And I'm like, oh, isn't that great? It's kind of like the first time he was like, man, this is really, really, really paying off. I'm like, Yes, it is. I do know what I'm talking about. And it's kind of the first time in my career that all of it has come together in a way that it just really fits all of my giftings. So yeah, it's just been a really cool process.
Laura 20:08
I love hearing that. Oh my gosh, that makes my heart so happy.
Kristen 20:13
All thanks to you to Laura's like probably mad at me. I keep telling people to Voxer. And she's like, don't tell them to Voxer me. And this is why I was like, Laura, you need a program. You're so good at what you do.
Laura 20:27
Oh, thank you. And it was a joy to help you one on one. I really enjoyed it. And I so for me, watching your transformation was encouragement to me that people need to know how to do this. 100% is like, I'm happy to feature you on my podcast. I'm happy to teach other Yeah, because there's so many business owners, they're never million dollar range, like beyond info products in real 100% commerce in brick and mortar services, right? There's so many like, law firms who don't even know what a funnel is. Right? Hey, whatever to actually learn. Yeah, and you know, this, you could get into so many different niches, niches, niches, tomato tomato, yeah, you could get into so many different areas of specialty, just using the process that I use. And for me, it was the same thing, like I had so many different marketing and branding
experiences. And when I fell into consulting and really spent years just refining it and figuring it out. A lot of what you shared today, like making sure that you have a clear target, making sure you know exactly who you're serving all and there's certain processes and steps that I use. Once I were find that, I was like, Oh my gosh, like, this is such a great lifestyle business. I think in particular, our moms and particularly for people with a marketing background that don't want to work. 100% are really good at marketing.
Kristen 21:47
Yeah. And I think it really hits the nail on the head on like moms that have there are so many moms that I know, that have an incredible professional experience. But you know, stayed home with their kids when they were little but still want to use their brain and talk to people older than five years old. And like all of those things, right. And I think the consulting piece is really something that moms especially could just benefit from tremendously. So I'm so glad you're doing this.
Laura 22:18
Yes. I'm so excited to Well, thank you for sharing your experience. Absolutely. With everybody who's listening on being a consultant in your background, and I'm sure people want to get in touch with you and just learn more about what you do, especially because you offer agency services and I don't offer that- what's the best way for them to get in touch with you?
Kristen 22:35
Yeah, so they can go to my website, which is kristinmccallcom. So that's probably the best way I have all my social links on there. All my social handles are Kristin S as in Sam McCall, so you can find me on Instagram and Facebook and all of these places.
Laura 22:56
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing.
Kristen 22:57
Thanks so much, Laura!
Laura 23:01
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The Scale with Joy podcast dives into the mindset and strategies of scaling your company to the million dollar mark and beyond. Each week, we follow the journeys of innovators, disruptors, experts and leaders - sharing behind the scenes stories of their most challenging moments and greatest lessons learned-all while building their multi-million dollar empires.