#10: Marketing Message Mastery with Danielle Cevallos, Founder of Firebrand Communications
Danielle Cevallos, a messaging strategist for high growth 7 & 8 figure companies, knows how to pivot copy to match the world around us in a blink of an eye.
She writes articles, social media posts, blogs and much more for companies that truly want to build their legacy in the world and change the dynamic of the conversation.
In this podcast episode, Danielle states that it’s important to make sure your content has a mixture of both honesty and hope.
Some businesses will have to make major shifts, while others will just have to make small tweaks.
It’s all about understanding what the pain points are.
What’s important now might not be what was important a month ago. Know your audience and what they are looking for.
Right now, overcommunication is key.
You can check out Danielle’s podcast here or follow her on instagram @firebrandcom.
What is the secret to scaling with joy? It’s simple- making more profit with less stress. To find out how to make more profit and work less, visit https://tenprofitdrivers.com. Yes, it’s possible to grow your company without adding on complicated programs, products or divisions. These are the same simplified growth methods that I have used over and over with my own private consulting clients and national brands, in info products, retail e-commerce, and service.
Listen to the Show:
Laura (00:00):
This is the Scale with Joy show, episode 10: marketing message mastery.
(00:08):
Welcome to the Scale with Joy show, a podcast about scaling your company while living your most purposeful life because here's the thing: there are no rules to say you can't grow a massively profitable empire and have joy in the everyday. My name is Laura Meyer and let's get started.
(00:33):
Today on the podcast I have Danielle Cevallos joining me and she is a copywriter and messaging strategist for high growth firebrands. Firebrands are brands that have meaning and purpose and they're also on a very fast trajectory. Danielle's going to share with you the types of messages that are resonating the most right now during this uncertain time during this crisis and pandemic, and you're going to get some great takeaways on things that you can do immediately to shift your message, to make sure that you are communicating both a sense of hope, as well as positioning yourself as the expert that you are, again, during this unprecedented time. So I know you're going to enjoy hearing from Danielle as much as I did, so be prepared to take notes and hone in your marketing message with Danielle.
(01:30):
Hi, and welcome back to the scale with joy podcast. I am here with Danielle Cevallos and she is a writer and a messaging strategist to what we call firebrands in the entrepreneurial circles. These are high growth seven and eight figure companies and she has done work for my own clients; we've worked together, and I love Danielle and I'm so excited to share her with you today. Thank you, Danielle for joining us.
Danielle (02:03):
Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to chat.
Laura (02:06):
Yeah, so just to catch our audience up, tell us a little bit about maybe your background, just a few minutes about what brought you to today and what keeps you busy each and every week.
Danielle (02:18):
Yeah, so I feel like most people who have sort of an entrepreneurial journey, mine was definitely not a straight shot. I grew up in a time where this world that we live in really didn't exist. So we all just went to school and I got a master's in education, became a teacher. I did that for 12 years, but I always had this sort of like inkling that I wanted more. So I did, I mean I remember I like sold Mary Kay for one day in college because I wanted to like try a business. Right? And that was all there was, this was back in like 2000, is when I started college. And so I had all these little things along the way, but I was just teaching normally in a public school and my husband and I, we ended up moving overseas for a few years and I got bored there. I was teaching at an international school, which is quite different and a little bit easier teaching special ed in a public school. And so I was a little bit bored and decided to become a personal trainer.
(03:21):
I always tell people I did that because I wanted to wear leggings and I really believe that's like my only reason why I did that. And through that I ended up working with a coach who, at the time she doesn't do this anymore, she was coaching female fitness pros who wanted to start an online business. And I had to start my business online because I was living overseas and my visa, I couldn't actually like work at a gym there. There were really specific guidelines around them. So I began building this online business. I realized I didn't like training, but I did like the online business side of things. When I came home, I was talking to this coach and I had written a blog. My husband and I adopted our daughters, and this was like back in the day when blogging was really big. I blogged through our whole adoption process. And so I grew that pretty big. I wrote like a little, you know, eBook and I wrote this Bible study journal and so she asked me when I come home, she's like, Oh, you write, don't you? And I was like, I mean, sure, I guess.
(04:17):
And so she asked me, I wanted to write for her. And then she had a digital marketing agency on the side for her female fitness pros. And so I ended up working for not only her company but then all of her clients. And it was two years of like copywriting, marketing, branding, bootcamp. It was pretty hardcore. I worked a lot of hours, did a lot of just self-study research, had to really master voice, which is a challenge. It's different when you write for yourself and when you write for other people. And so it was kind of like a trial by fire, but I really loved it. I love seeing the inner workings of her business and these other women's businesses.
(04:57):
I was teaching the whole time I was coaching cheerleading and I was really burned out. So I just, because my job at school was so crazy, I just told her, hey, I can't really do this anymore. I need to just focus on being a teacher and decided I was going to be teacher forever. And so about two months later I got bored again and decided to start my own company. Her agency had was no longer, and so I just decided to do it on my own. So I've been doing that since 2018 and I grew that to above the six-figure mark in a little less than a year. And I realized at that point that what I really love is working with brands, that they're not necessarily relying on their content and their messaging and their copy for direct sales. They're really building their legacy. They're building their thought leadership and they're really trying to make an impact. So they want their content to kind of build that legacy for them.
(05:53):
And of course they want to make sales. Everyone's in business to make sales. But there was a bigger picture behind what they were doing. And those were the clients I loved working with. So I made a switch in brand and clientele, and now I work with seven/eight figure brands that again, they want to really and truly make an impact. They're not just in this to make money. They want to really build this legacy that will disrupt their industry, that will change the dynamic of the conversation. And so we do all kinds of writing, everything from articles to social media posts, emails to books, all the things for these thought leaders.
Laura (06:35):
So good. And at the time of this recording, in case you're listening to the replay, we are in quarantine, we are all in quarantine, the whole country is in quarantine and we are also in, what looks like pending recession. And one of the things I get asked very often is how do we change the messaging that possibly we had on file previously? Maybe we had content on file. I know I did, some of what you did. And I'm looking at the content now and I'm kind of moving it around and how do we look at the creative that we would typically put out and create a shift that is sensitive to what people are experiencing right now in the world.
Danielle (07:25):
Yeah. So first I want to kind of speak to that idea. If you, and this has been a longstanding belief of mine, that I believe everyone should have preplanned content, but I think everyone should have room because you never know when things like this are going to happen. And so if you have your preplanned content for six months in advance, I'm going to encourage you to throw it all out or start looking at how to shift it. Because if you don't speak to what's going on and you just sort of go on as business as usual, then you seem out of touch and you seem insensitive. And so you don't want to just continue to put out the same content you would have, however, you don't necessarily have to change it completely. So this is going to be very dependent on your business, right?
(08:09):
Some businesses do have to make massive shifts, and we've talked about this before, some businesses have to go in a completely different direction. A lot of businesses online don't have to make those major shifts. They just have to do these small, tiny little tweaks to make what they would normally say a little bit more relevant now. And so I think the thing that I always go back to is you want your content to have a mixture of honesty and hope. I believe that as small business owners, we are the lifeblood of our country and our economy. And as a believer, I believe that we are the lifeblood of hope for people, right? We have an answer. You don't want to go to market with a strategy that is not acknowledging the present state of the world. So you need to honest like we are going into a recession.
Danielle (08:57):
Things are hard, people are tired of being at home. People are losing their jobs. That's a reality. That's real. We're not going to act like those things are not happening. We're simply going to say, those things are happening. However, here's the hope and here's the way out, or here's the opportunity to pivot, or here's the opportunity to grow and we want to make sure that we have that balance so that nothing is all women do, but nothing is like pie in the sky. It's going to be great. Everyone has fun. Just, you know, they're on some yoga pants and wine. Like there's a mixture of both of those and I think every brand has to find that for themselves.
Laura (09:35):
Have you found any specific messages? Like can you think about possibly any clients that you've helped or specific industries? So we can think about how it might serve as an example for anybody who's listening.
Danielle (09:48):
Yeah, so there's several. So if you're in the business to business space and you are offering business coaching or you're offering, or even, you know, my own business, I can share this. So you know, for my clients, messaging is always important, right? But now their voice needs to be the only voice their people go to, right? Their content needs to be the cornerstone, the hope, the anchor for their people. Because if they're the one who can get their people through this season and come out on the other side, then that will not just for their business today, that is going to have a major compound effect in six months, a year, two years. So even that slight change, my people already knew their messaging was important, but now it's pivotal. Like they have to show up and they have to show up 10x what they used to show up and they can't do that on their own, right?
(10:41):
They need help with that content. They can't just be producing 10 times the amount of content they used to produce without some help on the side. So that's one example. If you're in the health space, health is always important, right? Health and fitness. If you're in the fitness world, there is never a time where fitness is not critical to, you know, work. Fitness is not not going to be sellable, right? Fitness is always sellable. But today there are so many layers to which people have an anxiety and fear around their health for obvious reasons. We're living through a pandemic; they're overwhelmed in ways they've never been overwhelmed. So the stress, the anxiety, all of those things add an extra layer to health where you as a health professional can come in and provide not just your program and your service, but answers that again, give hope. So their reality has shifted. I love the gym. Guess what? I can't go to the gym. I haven't gone to the gym in a month and a half. I hate working out at home, but I need to do something right because now the requirements on me are not just run a business, it's run a business while my whole family's home, and that is a whole different dynamic.
(11:54):
My mindset has to be more dialed in. My physical health has to be more dialed in. My sleep has to be more dialed in. The level to which I need to take care of my body has now risen up a couple of notches. It's not just, oh, I want to look cute in my bikini because let's be real. Who knows if I'm even going to get to wear that? I don't even know if that's going to happen. Now it's, I need to keep my head in the game because I've got to run a business and I'm making very hard decisions. We all have to make decisions about who we keep and who we don't. Where do we grow our business where do we pivot? So now my health, that message shift is a little bit different. Maybe I'm not as worried about looking good in a bathing suit, but I am really worried about how am I sleeping, how am I, you know, handling stress. How am I not going to eat every damn thing in my cabinet?
(12:46):
I have bought things that I would never buy otherwise because there's no freedom to go out and get anything, right? So we have Cheetos in my house, like cans of Coke. I've never had that in my whole life. We don't do that. So you as a fitness pro have this opportunity to say, okay, how do we help you not eat everything in your pantry? How do we help you fight your cravings when all when you can't go out, you know, when you can't just go out? My favorite green juices, I can't get them anymore. So all those different things, health has become more important than maybe the aesthetics of the fitness role. So those are just a couple of examples. There's a million, but I think that you need to think about how you can turn your business from a, oh, that's nice into, we need that. It' a necessity that I invest in that.
Laura (13:36):
That's so funny about the Cheetos because the disclaimers that I know that you have teenagers in your house. But I will also say that I have not had that same temptation, but I have on the ice cream. So the ice cream has been prevailing in my freezer with the disclaimer that I am seven months pregnant at the time of recording and have a five-year-old and a seven-year-old that really do need ice cream in their life that they would normally get on Fridays at school. So for all of us, it's some kind of vice depending on our stage of life. And normally I would go out for ice cream and that would be sort of how I had handled my health. That way, I know I would have to at least leave the house for that treat. But now I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm at the grocery store and there happens to be ice cream and I might as well get two because who knows if it's going to be here next time. So as we, as we peel back the onion, right, of all the little nuances of the things that we used to probably not go as deep on the pain points of our customer. Talk a little bit about empathy in this communications. Like how does it play into what you do for your clients at a time like this?
Danielle (14:54):
Yeah. So first of all, I would say you do need to go back and assess are the pain points still the same? I do think there will be industries where they are, and I think that many industries will have different pain points. And the first step to showing empathy is understanding that the pain points are different. And that means that you might have to go back and do some market research in an informal helpful way. You think that you can't just assume that what was an issue a month ago it is an issue today. So step one is understanding what the pain points are today and know that they might not be the pain points in six months from now. You might go back to what used to be right or you might not. So I think that's number one. Number two is I think that we are all living in something that really nobody understands fully and there is no precedent for. And so because of that, you need to really show up in a way that's kind of peppered with grace. I think that everyone is a little afraid and I don't know that that is something that you should shy away from because there is a real threat, right?
(16:04):
And so to just say like don't be afraid, like everything is going to be fine. That's, we don't know that there are people who are in hospitals and they are, there are people who are nurses and doctors that are having to sacrifice going home to their families because they don't want to, you know, risk infecting them. So the reality of the pain and the hardness is there. And so an empathetic way to show up for that is to acknowledge that, to know that there are people who are walking through heavy, heavy things right now. And just because you're a little world might not have been massively affected or you don't have someone personally dealing with that. You never want to minimize the fact that this is hard. Like what we're doing is hard and even if the only effect you have is that you can't leave your house.
(16:54):
I was talking to a group of girls last night and none of us really have any, like no one's lost a job, you know, we're all like, okay, like I said, this is not hard for us. Like we're in our house with cable and food. This is, you know, not a big deal for us. But the loss of freedom that I can't just go out to a restaurant with my husband, that I can't just go to the gym when I want. Those are things that for some people it is incredibly challenging. And so in your marketing efforts, you need to find the balance of, yeah, this is hard, and we know that, and we see that in you. Here's an alternative. And I've seen a couple of commercials online, I think, oh, they did a good job.
(17:33):
They've really shifted, where I think it was like a, not a Netflix or something like that where they were like, hey, you know, you're home more often now. Like stay safe. Here's some ideas. Like, yeah, this is not how you wanted it to be, but grab some popcorn, have, you know, get some wine and have a family movie night. Like it was sort of this idea of, this really does, but here's an alternative or here's how you can get through. I think if you can find that balance of, yeah, this is hard for you and we get it, we understand. And even sharing some of your own story depending on your level of effectiveness, I don't know that's not a word, but how your business has been affected. I think that just humanizes you and shows the world that, hey, like we're in this with you. I think that message is really important for people to hear that we're in this with you, but we're writing the lead. Like, we're ready to be here for you to help you get through it.
Laura (18:35):
What is the secret to scaling with joy? It's simple: making more profit with less stress. And to find out how to make more profit and work less visit tenprofitdrivers.com or head to the link in the show notes where I share my top 10 favorite ways to create more financial margin and time freedom using the resources you already have. Yes, it's possible to grow your company without adding on complicated programs, products or divisions. These are the same simplified growth methods that I've used over and over with my own private consulting clients and national brands, in info products, retail, eCommerce and service. That's tenprofitdrivers.com Also available in the show notes. Now back to the show.
(19:24):
Is it appropriate to sell in a time like this because fundamentally marketing copywriting, even when it's more focused on brand building, which is more of where your area is, ultimately the goal is to grow the business with it and is it appropriate to be selling at a time like this?
Danielle (19:43):
Yes. I mean, my short answer, yes, long answer is, I always tell, to me, I don't understand the issue of selling it all. If you have a product that helps people or gives people what they want, like if you're, if you're selling something that's not real, it doesn't work, if it's not great, then yeah, that's shady whether it's in a pandemic or not. But if you have something that's transformative, if you have something that's truly helpful, if you have something that actually gives people something they're looking for and it truly delivers on the promise, it makes. I mean it's just an exchange. Like you're giving someone something that they want or need in exchange for money. So to me, there's nothing gross about that. You're helping people with your product. Again, if it's a valid, viable product. But I do think on a couple layers, we, we should 100% continue selling.
(20:38):
Number one, people are losing their jobs left and right. If you can keep your people working and you can come out of this by even hiring more people. I mean you are truly helping the economy to maintain just a little bit of its normalcy. So I feel like you know, someone who has employees, like it is my duty to do everything in my power to keep these people in their jobs. And I understand that there are industries that cannot do that. You know, I'm not a restaurant. I didn't have to literally close my doors and say done, right? They had to do that. So for me, I can keep my business going and yeah, I don't have 25 people on my team, but I can keep the 4-5 people that I have working because their husband or their wife might lose their job. And so number one, I think as a business owner, part of our responsibility is to do everything in our power. And that's going to mean selling, like you, you can't keep going if you're not making money. I can't pay people if I don't have sales coming in. So that's one level.
(21:41):
And then the second level is, I know that there's something that I can do to help people grow. So if you're a fitness trainer and you'd have to dig up some of your health knowledge to give people a sense of security in their ability to take care of themselves and their families offer that to them like they want that, they need that. If you are, you know, an art teacher and you have the ability to give parents a break in the middle of the day by a $50 a month art class. Like do that. Like it's something that they want. These kids aren't going to school, they don't have their art teacher they want, they have their mom who's like here are some crayons. Like they want you with your expertise to show up and do that.
(22:29):
If you're a business coach and you know that people's businesses are shutting down left and right and you have an answer and you can help them, sell. Like if you're a marketer and you can say, hey, we can save your company. It does not have to close because we can pivot your marketing and do this instead of this. And by the end of this, you will still have a company to go back to. Like to me that is the highest level of service to someone. I don't know why you wouldn't want to do that to help them. So are there like luxury items and things like sure. There's all these nuances to that, but at the heart of selling, if you've got something that is transformative and helpful, sell it, keep your people working. Like do what you have to do to get through this. So that's my 2 cents.
Laura (23:21):
I had to laugh because "go with these crayons and paper, mommy's recording a podcast" may or may not have happened about 30 minutes ago. I will not confirm or deny that that took place in my house. And "go see what daddy's up to" that was sort of tagged at the end of it. But you know, it is something that I can understand why people would be hesitant. And my answer has always been along the lines of what you've said, and also do you believe that what you're selling, will really help people. And you are really deep down, hesitant, maybe it is something to go back and take a look at. Do you really believe that your product or service is going to serve people right now? And if you don't think it does, if you're questioning that, if you're wondering, well is its enough value? Maybe that's to be looked at. Maybe you need to look at your value stack. Maybe you need to look above and beyond, obviously the mindset challenges, but, but maybe it just needs to serve people differently than it did in the past.
Danielle (24:30):
Yeah, I think that's an important distinction to make. Some people will say, oh, if you have a gift, sell it. I don't actually think that just anything should be sold. I think that quality products and offers should be sold. And this is a great kind of test, you know, there are lots of things that are fun, that aren't necessary and that aren't helpful, but they're not harmful and they're just fun, right? So if you're in one of those places, then it, like you said, it might be time to look at how can I shift this to really sell something that is necessarily necessary.
(25:01):
I just saw, Ellen talking about how Portia de Rossi has like a 3D printing art company, like I don't know what it does, but it's art and it and they had to close it down and all these things. And that's a luxury thing. You know, beautiful art. It's, it's beautiful, but it's a luxury, right? So what they've done is turned it into a 3D printing where they do like face masks for the hospital staff. She probably never woke up and said, I want to print 3D masks for office staff. She wanted to do art and make beautiful paintings everywhere. Right? But she looked at her offerings and this is not necessary right now. And she changed it to something that she could do that was necessary right now. And so there might be people who need to do that. And I think, you know, adjust if you need to or you know, completely changed if you need to. But I also believe that if you're not wholeheartedly in belief that what you sell is amazing, even in good times that you shouldn't sell it.
Laura (26:06):
Yes, I totally agree. And I also, I think this happens a lot in the art and the creative world and it happens a little bit more with starting out business owners than I think established. But I do think that sometimes we wake up with our dream and our idea of what we want it to be or what we want to sell. And in a certain point in business it flips. At a certain point in business we become much more customer centric and much more focused on what the customer needs, the client needs. For example, you and I, we have no issue selling right now to the clients we serve because I know for that the direct response strategies that I know how to do really well online are the very best thing they could be doing for their business. You know that over communicating right now, showing up way more than ever online is the number one thing that you can do for your business. Like those, those two things right now, like you, you couldn't invest your time better on those two activities to make sure that your business survives. And sometimes I go into organizations that might have let's say 200-300 locations and you're working with each of the location area representatives. And what happens is that some believe more than others that their product or service really solves a problem. And you see that showing up and a lot of the limited beliefs around making offers right now.
Danielle (27:29):
The most effective sales strategy is someone who's 100% confident in their offer to meet the needs of the market. And yeah, there's messaging and there's visuals and there's a million different things in there. But you know, I mean I like Damon John always talks about like selling his stuff from his car. He didn't have any of the fancy stuff. He just was like, no, this is the best stuff. And that's what he did. And so when you have that belief, it'll get you pretty far. And then, you know, obviously you need to make it amazing.
Laura (28:03):
How in the last month or two has your, has your faith either shifted or how has that impacted the way in which you view your business?
Danielle (28:16):
I don't know if I would say it's a major shift. I feel like one thing God's really taught me through my business, so teaching is a very stable, predictable job, right? I was good at it, my administrators liked me. I knew what I was doing. Like every day I knew what I was doing and that becomes very, you can become very complacent doing that because and you can also become very like prideful and like I got this, like this is not, I mean I had some difficult students that came from different difficult backgrounds. so it was a ministry in that way. But I, in terms of my work, it felt like, I know what I'm doing, right? I, I mean, I believe fully in working hard and doing what's necessary to grow your business, but there's a sense of like, God has to grow it.
(29:09):
And that balance for me has been like the hugest challenge because I'm a doer and I'm like, I'm just gonna work harder than everyone else. But I think we all know people who work incredibly hard, who aren't as successful and, and I totally believe like God has to bring the growth. I don't know a better way to say that. And so for me, this whole business journey has been this dance of like, I've got to show up, I've got to do the work. I've got be faithful. I've got to keep going when it's hard, but like God has to grow it. And this shift, I was kind of already in the middle of a branding shift in general, right? So in January, like the end of January, I had already started to shift my brand completely and I had a really nice plan to do this nice and slowly and like it was just a wonderful plan and all kind of went out the window in about three days.
(30:09):
And I had to just really look at, okay, do I really feel like God's calling me to do this, this way and am I going to trust him and this sped up process that I didn't really want to do right now that I just kind of wanted to, you know, keep going for another four or five months. And I just had to do a little gut check. Like, do you still believe that God is the one who grows your business, do you think he can grow it through these, this crazy and certain time? So that in terms of business, that's been a thing.
(30:41):
And I think personally, you know, anxiety and fear over just all the things that we're all anxious over. I mean this is a scary time in terms of health. Like I have asthma, my oldest daughter has a health issue. So immediately you look at any news article and you're like, oh my gosh, we're all this is, this is terrible. We're all going to be, this is not, there's no good ending here. And so I had to really look at, you know, do I believe that God is sovereign? Do I believe that he is still on the throne, that he still knows what's going on? He still has a plan even though like it looks like there was no plan in place. Like do I believe that that is still real? So I think on a personal level, it's really kind of given me a gut check. But certainly on a business level it's really brought me back to, all right Danielle, like you're not building this. Like, I don't know, I'm not one of these like build your own empire. Like, I want to be faithful to build what God wants me to build. And so this has really brought me back to are you doing that? You know, are you getting a little out of hand or are you really going the direction you need to be going in?
Laura (31:48):
So it was a recheck for you?
Danielle (31:51):
100%. I mean personally, business wise, yes, absolutely.
Laura (31:56):
Good. And anybody who wants to hear my story of a very closed door and having to pivot very fast. It wasn't for me in the last few months, but it was absolutely two years ago, and I go into that in detail in Danielle's podcast. So we'll link to that in the show notes. Yes. And you can hear that too. So, um, Danielle, where can people find more about you, listen to your podcast and moving forward?
Danielle (32:24):
So my podcast is called Firebrand Radio and I interview seven eight figure business owners. Laura was on last week, I think. So, I've done a kind of recession proofing series really, and it's really just kind of, a series to help newer business owners or kind of people in that mid-level who've maybe never walked through something like this to learn from people who have, and who have done so successfully and who are doing so successfully because I know that it's hard to find the hope in this. And like if you just turn on the news, it's not great. So we need to hear stories of people who are like, nope, this is going to be hard. But we got it. Like we're, we're moving. So, you can check me out there.
Laura (33:07):
Wonderful. Thank you for joining us. Danielle. It was a pleasure and I'm so excited to hear and see all of the great things that you're doing for your clients in the coming months. So thanks again for joining us and we'll talk to you soon.
Danielle (33:21):
Thanks for having me.
Laura (33:21):
Make sure to visit our website, www.joybrandcreative.com/podcast where you can subscribe to the show in iTunes, Stitcher, or RSS so that you'll never miss an episode. While you're at it, if you find a value in this show, we'd appreciate a rating on iTunes or if you just simply tell a friend about it, that would help us out a lot too. Thanks so much for listening.
The Scale with Joy podcast dives into the mindset and strategies of scaling your company to the million dollar mark and beyond. Each week, we follow the journeys of innovators, disruptors, experts and leaders - sharing behind the scenes stories of their most challenging moments and greatest lessons learned-all while building their multi-million dollar empires.